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Thematic Divisions in Book 5
1. Preface to Rubric 2. The Rubric 3. Mary's First Moves 4. The Inhibition5. Bourne's Sermon 6. The True Report7. The Precept to Bonner 8. Anno 15549. From 'The Communication' to 'A Monition' 10. Bonner's Monition11. Mary's Articles for Bonner 12. The Articles 13. From Mary's Proclamation to the 'Stile'14. From the 'Stile' to the 'Communication' 15. The 'Communication' 16. How Thomas Cranmer ... 17. Cranmer18. Ridley 19. Latimer20. Harpsfield's Forme 21. 1563's Disputational Digest22. Political Events up to Suffolk's Death 23. Between Mantell and the Preacher's Declaration 24. The Declaration of Bradford et al 25. May 19 to August 1 26. August 1 - September 3 27. From Bonner's Mandate to Pole's Oration 28. Winchester's Sermon to Bonner's Visitation 29. Pole's Oration 30. From the Supplication to Gardiner's Sermon 31. From Gardiner's Sermon to 1555 32. From the Arrest of Rose to Hooper's Letter 33. Hooper's Answer and Letter 34. To the End of Book X 35. The Martyrdom of Rogers 36. The Martyrdom of Saunders 37. Saunders' Letters 38. Hooper's Martyrdom 39. Hooper's Letters 40. Rowland Taylor's Martyrdom 41. Becket's Image and other events 42. Miles Coverdale and the Denmark Letters 43. Bonner and Reconciliation 44. Robert Farrar's Martyrdom 45. The Martyrdom of Thomas Tomkins 46. The Martyrdom of Rawlins/Rowland White47. The Martyrdom of Higbed and Causton 48. The Martyrdom of William Hunter 49. The Martyrdom of Pigot, Knight and Laurence 50. Judge Hales 51. The Providential Death of the Parson of Arundel 52. The Martyrdom of John Awcocke 53. The Martyrdom of George Marsh 54. The Letters of George Marsh 55. The Martyrdom of William Flower 56. Mary's False Pregnancy57. The Martyrdom of Cardmaker and Warne 58. John Tooly 59. The Examination of Robert Bromley [nb This is part of the Tooly affair]60. Censorship Proclamation 61. The Martyrdom of Thomas Haukes 62. Letters of Haukes 63. The Martyrdom of Thomas Watts 64. Martyrdom of Osmund, Bamford, Osborne and Chamberlain65. The Martyrdom of Ardley and Simpson 66. The Martyrdom of John Bradford 67. Bradford's Letters 68. William Minge 69. The Martyrdom of John Bland 70. The Martyrdom of Frankesh, Middleton and Sheterden 71. Sheterden's Letters 72. Martyrdom of Carver and Launder 73. Martyrdom of Thomas Iveson 74. John Aleworth 75. Martyrdom of James Abbes 76. Martyrdom of Denley, Newman and Pacingham 77. Examinations of Hall, Wade and Polley 78. Richard Hooke 79. Martyrdom of William Coker, et al 80. Martyrdom of George Tankerfield, et al 81. Martyrdom and Letters of Robert Smith 82. Martyrdom of Harwood and Fust 83. Martyrdom of William Haile 84. Examination of John Newman 85. Martyrdom of Robert Samuel 86. George King, Thomas Leyes and John Wade 87. William Andrew 88. William Allen 89. Martyrdom of Thomas Cobb 90. Martyrdom of Roger Coo 91. Martyrdom of Catmer, Streater, Burwood, Brodbridge, Tutty 92. Martyrdom of Hayward and Goreway 93. Martyrdom and Letters of Robert Glover 94. John and William Glover 95. Cornelius Bungey 96. Martyrdom of Wolsey and Pigot 97. Life and Character of Nicholas Ridley 98. Ridley and Latimer's Conference 99. Ridley's Letters 100. Life of Hugh Latimer 101. Latimer's Letters 102. Ridley and Latimer Re-examined and Executed103. More Letters of Ridley 104. Life and Death of Stephen Gardiner 105. Martyrdom of Webb, Roper and Park 106. William Wiseman 107. Examinations and Martyrdom of John Philpot 108. John Went 109. Isobel Foster 110. Joan Lashford 111. Five Canterbury Martyrs 112. Life and Martyrdom of Cranmer 113. Letters of Cranmer 114. Martyrdom of Agnes Potten and Joan Trunchfield 115. Persecution in Salisbury Maundrell, Coberly and Spicer 116. William Tyms, et al 117. The Norfolk Supplication 118. Letters of Tyms 119. John Hullier's Execution120. John Hullier 121. Christopher Lister and five other martyrs 122. Hugh Lauerocke and John Apprice 123. Katherine Hut, Elizabeth Thacknell, et al 124. Martyrdom of John Harpole and Joan Beach 125. Thomas Drury and Thomas Croker 126. Thomas Spicer, John Deny and Edmund Poole 127. Thomas Rede128. Persecution of Winson and Mendlesam 129. William Slech 130. Avington Read, et al 131. Wood and Miles 132. Adherall and Clement 133. A Merchant's Servant Executed at Leicester 134. Thirteen Burnt at Stratford-le-Bow135. Persecution in Lichfield 136. Hunt, Norrice, Parret 137. Martyrdom of Bernard, Lawson and Foster 138. John Careless 139. Letters of John Careless 140. Martyrdom of Julius Palmer 141. Guernsey Martyrdoms 142. Dungate, Foreman and Tree 143. Martyrdom of Joan Waste 144. Three Men of Bristol145. Martyrdom of Edward Sharpe 146. Four Burnt at Mayfield at Sussex 147. John Horne and a woman 148. Northampton Shoemaker 149. Prisoners Starved at Canterbury 150. More Persecution at Lichfield 151. Exhumations of Bucer and Phagius along with Peter Martyr's Wife152. Pole's Visitation Articles for Kent153. Ten Martyrs Burnt at Canterbury154. The 'Bloody Commission'155. Twenty-two Prisoners from Colchester156. Five Burnt at Smithfield157. Stephen Gratwick and others158. Edmund Allen and other martyrs159. Edmund Allen160. Alice Benden and other martyrs161. Richard Woodman and nine other martyrs162. Ambrose163. The Martyrdom of Simon Miller and Elizabeth Cooper164. Rose Allin and nine other Colchester Martyrs165. John Thurston166. Thomas More167. George Eagles168. Richard Crashfield169. Fryer and George Eagles' sister170. John Kurde171. Cicelye Ormes172. Joyce Lewes173. Rafe Allerton and others174. Agnes Bongeor and Margaret Thurston175. Persecution at Lichfield176. Persecution at Chichester177. Thomas Spurdance178. Hallingdale, Sparrow and Gibson179. John Rough and Margaret Mearing180. Cuthbert Simson181. William Nicholl182. Seaman, Carman and Hudson183. Three at Colchester184. A Royal Proclamation185. Roger Holland and other Islington martyrs186. Richard Yeoman187. John Alcocke188. Alcocke's Epistles189. Thomas Benbridge190. Stephen Cotton and other martyrs191. Alexander Gouch and Alice Driver192. Three at Bury193. The Final Five Martyrs194. William Living195. The King's Brief196. William Browne197. Some Persecuted at Suffolk198. Elizabeth Lawson199. Edward Grew200. The Persecuted of Norfolk201. The Persecuted of Essex202. Thomas Bryce203. The Persecuted in Kent204. The Persecuted in Coventry and the Exiles205. Thomas Parkinson206. The Scourged: Introduction207. Richard Wilmot and Thomas Fairfax208. Thomas Greene209. Bartlett Greene and Cotton210. Steven Cotton's Letter211. Scourging of John Milles212. Scourging of Thomas Hinshaw213. Robert Williams214. Bonner's Beating of Boys215. A Beggar of Salisbury216. John Fetty217. James Harris218. Providences: Introduction219. The Miraculously Preserved220. Christenmas and Wattes221. Simon Grinaeus222. John Glover223. Dabney224. Alexander Wimshurst225. Bosom's wife226. The Delivery of Moyse227. Lady Knevet228. Crosman's wife229. Congregation at Stoke in Suffolk230. Congregation of London231. Robert Cole232. Englishmen at Calais233. John Hunt and Richard White234. Punishments of Persecutors235. Tome 6 Life and Preservation of the Lady Elizabeth236. The Westminster Conference237. Nicholas Burton238. Another Martyrdom in Spain239. Baker and Burgate240. Burges and Hoker241. Justice Nine-Holes242. Back to the Appendix notes243. A Poor Woman of Exeter244. Those Burnt at Bristol: extra material245. Priest's Wife of Exeter246. Gertrude Crockhey
Critical Apparatus for this Page
Commentary on the Text
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997 [929]

I aunswered: MarginaliaD. Ridley replyeth agaynst Fecknam.as for the multitude of affirmations in scripture, and where is one affirmatiō all is one, concerning the truth of the matter, for that any one of the Euāgelists spake inspired by the holy ghost, was as true as þt which is spoken of thē al. MarginaliaTruth in scripture goeth not by nomber of affirmation where one sufficient. It is true þt Iohn saieth of Christ. Ego sum ostium ouium: as if all had said it, for it is not in scripture as in witnes of men: where the nomber is credited more then one, because it is vncertain of whose spirite he doth speake. And where maister Fecknā spake of so many, affirmīg without any negatiō &c. Syr said I al they do affirme the thing which they ment. MarginaliaWordes in scripture must be taken with their meaning.now if ye take their wordes & leaue their meaning, thē do they not affirme what ye take but what they mēt: 

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A few distortions occurred in the printing of the dialogue from edition to edition. In 1563 (p 929), a passage reads 'then they do not affirme what ye take but what they ment' (my emphasis). In 1570 (p 1589), the word 'not' was omitted and this omission was repeated in subsequent editions (1576, p. 1356; 1583, p. 1427).

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sir said I, if in talke wt you, I shold so vtter my mynd in wordes, that ye by the same do and may plainly perceiue my meaning, and could (if ye would be captious) cauel my wordes and wrythe them to another sense, I would thinke ye were no gētle companion to talke with, except ye would take my wordes, as ye did perceiue that I did meane. Mary, quod maister Secretary, he shoulde els do you plaine iniurie and wrōg. Maister Fecknam perceiuinge whereunto my talke went, why quod he, what circumstances can ye shew me, that should moue to thinke of any other sense, then as the wordes plainly saye: Hoc est corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur.

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Syr said I, euen the next sentence that followeth: videlicet. MarginaliaHoc est corpus meum expoūded.Hoc facite in meam cōmemorationem. And also by what reason, ye say the bread is turned into Christes carnall body: I may say, that it is turned into his misticall body, MarginaliaReasons why theise wordes ought to be taken not literally.for as that saieth of it, Hoc est corpus quod pro vobis tradetur, so Paule whiche spake by Christes spirite, Vnus panis et vnum corpus multi sumus omnes qui de vno pane participamus. Here he calleth one bread, one lofe sayde maister secretary: yea said I, one lofe one bread all is one with me: but what saye ye, quod M. Secretary, of the vniuersalitie, antiquitie, and vnitie, that maister Fecknam did speake of?

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I ensure you said I, I thinke them matters weightie and to be considered wel. Marginaliavnitie with veritie to be alowed.As for vnitie the truth is, before God, I do beleue it and embrace it, so it be with veritie, and ioyned to our head Christe, and such one as Paule speaketh sayēg: Vna fides, vnus deus, vnū baptisma, & for MarginaliaAntiquite.antiquitie I am also perswaded to be true that Iren. sayeth: Quod primum verū. In oure religion Christes faith was first truly taught by Christ him selfe, by his Apostles & by many good men, that from the beginning did succede next vnto them: and for this cōtrouersie of the sacrament I am perswaded, that those old writers which wrote before the cōtrouersie & the vsurping of the sea of Rome, doth all agree, if they be well vnderstanded in this truth.

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I am glad to heare, said maister Secretary,

that ye do so wel esteme þe doctors of þe church.

MarginaliaVniuersalytie hath a double vnderstāding.Nowe as for vniuersalitie, it may haue two meaninges: one to vnderstande that to be vniuersall whiche from the beginning in al ages hath bene allowed: another, to vnderstand vniuersalitie, the multitude of our age or of anye other singuler age.

No no, sayeth maister Secretary, these thre doo alwayes agree: and where there is one, there is al the reste: and here he and I changed many wordes. And finally to be shorte in this matter, we did not agree.

There was none, quod maister Fecknam, before Berengarius, Wyclief, and Hus, and nowe in oure daies Carolostadius, and Oecolampadius. And Carolostadius sayeth, Christe pointeth his owne bodie, and not the sacramēt and sayd it: Hoc est corpus meum, and Melanchtō writeth to one Micronius, MarginaliaMelanton ad Myconum.(Miconius sayd I) and sayth, Nullam satis grauem rationē inuenire possum, propter quam a fide maiorū in hac materia dissentiam, or like wordes.

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Thus when he had spoken at lengthe with many other wordes mo. Syr said I, it is certē, that other before these haue wrytten of this matter, not by the waye onely and obiter, as doth for the moste all the olde wryters, but euen ex professo, as their whole booke intreateth of it alone, as Bertram. 

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'Bertram' is Ratramnus of Corbie, a ninth-century theologian known, among other works, for his De Corpore et sanguine Domini, which emphasised the figurative nature of the elements of the Sacrament (1563, p. 929; 1570, p. 1590; 1576, p. 1357; 1583, p. 1427).

MarginaliaBertram Bertram, sayd Secretary, what man was he, and when was he, 

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In the first two editions, Bourne asks Ridley about Bertram: 'What man was he, and when was he?' (1563, p. 929; 1570, p. 1590). In the edition of 1576, this was mistakenly changed to 'What man was he and whom was he' (p. 1357); this was repeated in the next edition (1583, p. 1427).

and how do ye know? &c. with many questions Sir quod I, I haue red his booke: he proponeth the same, whiche is nowe in controuersie, and aunswereth so directly that no man may doubte but that he affirmeth, that the substance of bread remaineth still in the sacrament: and he wrote vnto vnto Carolus Magnus. Mary quod he, mark for ther is a matter, he wrote, quod he, ad Henricum and not ad Carolum for no autor maketh mētion of Bertramus. Yes quod I, Trithemius in Catalogo illustrium scriptorū speaketh of him.

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Trithemius was but of late time: but he speaketh quod I, of them that were of antiquitie. Here after muche talke of Bertram, What autors haue ye quod maister Secretary, to make of the sacrament a figure?

Sir quod I, ye know, I thinke, that MarginaliaTertullianus.Tertullian in plaine wordes speaketh thus, Hoc est corpus, id est figura corporis mei. And MarginaliaGelasius.Gelasius saieth plainly that Substantia panis manet, and MarginaliaOrigen.Origen sayeth lykewyse, Quod sanctificatur secundum materiam, ingreditur stomachum et vadit in secessum. 

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The English translations of passages from patristic fathers and from the Vulgate, which appear throughout this dialogue, were introduced in the 1570 edition.

This when I had englished maister Secretary said to me, you knowe very well as any man &c. and here, if I woulde, I might haue been set in a folysh paradise of his commendation of my learning, and quod essē vir multæ lectionis, but this I wold not take at his hād: he set me not vp so hie, but I brought my selfe as lowe again, & here was much a do.

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As
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