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1598 [1598]

K. Edward. 6. A Dialogue betwene Custome and Truth,

MarginaliaAn. 1552.if you take it for so haynous a thyng that Christ should sit residēt in heauē in the glory of his father, MarginaliaThe body of Christ imprisoned by the Papistes in a boxe, and afterward burned when he is mouldie.what thinke you of them that imprison him in a litle boxe 

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'Little box': tabernacle or pyx used for reserving the Eucharist in the Catholic tradition.

, yea & kepe hym in captiuitie so long, vntill he be mouldy and ouergrowne with vermine 
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In the Catholic tradition it was understood that when the outward forms of bread and wine ceased to be outward forms of bread and wine, i.e., when the outward form of bread turns into mold or the outward form of wine turns into vinegar, Christ was no longer present. Such circumstances were rare and strictly guarded against by the clergy.

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, and when he is past mās meate, be not contented to hange hym till he stincke, but will haue hym to a new execution, and burne hym too? 
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'Burn him [Christ] too?'. If the Eucharist underwent the occurrences described above in the note for lines 266-267, or if an ill communicant coughed up some element of the host mixed with mucus or saliva, the clergy were to dispose of the elements (no longer recognized as Christ under the signs of bread) by burning them. Here Verity is alluding to the burning of heretics for believing the Eucharistic doctrines he is propounding in the reigns of Henry VIII, and probably Mary I.

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This is wonderfull, & extreme cruell imprisonyng. But to returne to the matter, we are certainely persuaded by the word of God, that Christ the very sonne of God vouchsaued to take vpon hym the body and shape of man, and that he walked and was conuersaunt amongest men in that same one, and not in many bodies, and that he suffred death, arose agayne, and ascended to heauen in the selfe same body, and that hee sitteth at his fathers right hand in his manhode, in the nature and substaunce of the sayd one body. This is our beliefe: this is the very word of God. Wherfore they are farre deceiued which leauyng heauen, will grope for Christes body vpon the earth.

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MarginaliaChristes body is spirituall in the Sacramēt, say the Papistes.CVST. Nay syr, but I see now you are farre out of the way. For Christ hath not so grosse and fleshely, as you thinke, but a spirituall and a Ghostly body, and therfore without repugnance it may be in many places at once.

VERI. You say right well, and do graunt that Christes body is spirituall. But I pray you aunswere me by the way: Can any other body then that which is spirituall, be at one tyme in sondry places?

CVST. No truly.

VERI. Haue we that same selfe Sacrament that Christ gaue to hys Disciples at his Maundy 

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'Maundy': Christ's Last Supper remembered on Holy or Maundy Thursday, when he commanded ('maundy') the Apostles to continue celebrating the Eucharist as he had done that night.

, or no?

CVST. No doubtles, we haue the same.

VERI. Whē became Christes body spirituall? was it so euen from hys byrth?

CVST. No, for doubtles before hee arose from death, his body was earthly as other mens bodies are.

VERI. Well, but when gaue Christ the Sacrament to his Disciples? before he arose from death, or after?

CVST. You know your selfe he gaue it before his resurrection, the night before he suffred his Passion.

VERI. Why then, me thinketh he gaue the Sacrament at that tyme, when his body was not spirituall.

CVST. Euen so.

VERI. And was euerie portion of the Sacrament delt to the Apostles, and receiued into their mouthes the very reall, and substantiall body of Christ?

CVST. Yea doubtles.

MarginaliaThe Popes doctrine repugnant to it selfe.VERI. Marke well what ye haue sayd, for you haue graunted me great repugnance. First you say that no body beyng not spirituall can be in sondry places at once. Thē say you that at the maundy Christes body was not spirituall: and yet hold you that he was there present visible before the Apostles eyes, and in ech of their handes and mouthes all at one time: which grauntes of yours are not agreable. But I will gather a better and a more formall reason of your owne wordes, in this sorte.

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Fe-
No body being reall, naturall, and organicall, and
not spirituall, can be in many places at once.
ri-
Christes body in the Sacrament was in the Apo-
stles handes and mouthes at one tyme, which were
many places:
son.
Ergo, Christes body in the Sacrament was not a
reall, naturall, and organicall body, but spirituall. 
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An extremely simplistic view of the Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist is presented (or rather, in this case, not presented).

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MarginaliaThe Papistes though they be conuicted, yet they will not beleue.CVST. In deede you haue driuen me into the straites before I was ware of you, and I know not how I may escape your handes honestly. But the best refuge that I haue is this, I will not beleue you.

VERI. I desyre you not to geue credence to me. Beleue the worde of God, yea beleue your own beliefe, for they both witnes agaynst you that Christes body is taken vp into heauen, and there shall remaine vntill he come to Iudge.

CVST. Tushe what speake you of the worde of God? There bee many darke sayinges therin, which euery mā can not attaine to.

VERI. I graunt you there be certeine obscure places in the Scripture, yet not so obscure but that a man with the grace of God may perceiue: for it was written not for Aungels, but for men. MarginaliaCustome medleth but little with Scripture.But as I vnderstand Custome medleth but litle with Scripture. 

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Protestants were most reluctant to acknowledge that the Bible was obscure in numerous places, whether due to the difficulties of translation or the meaning of certain words or passages in their contexts; Catholics recognized Scripture's opaqueness to the general reader in certain texts, and stated that the Church had ultimate authority - given to it by Christ - in their interpretation, using the resources of Church tradition, including the determination of General Councils and the writings of the Church Fathers, in sharp contrast to Verity's remark that 'Custom [tradition] meddles but little with Scripture'. In fact, as noted earlier, tradition and scripture were inextricably linked as the two modes of Christ's one revelation.

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How say you by S. Augustine, Saint Hierome, S. Ambrose, what if they stand on our side? 
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Verity uses the strategy of employing quotes from numerous Fathers of the Church upheld as some of the leading theologians of Catholicism to dismiss Catholic claims regarding the Eucharist. This strategy has its draw-backs, i.e., in the case of the Venerable Bede, whose Ecclesiastical History of the English People possessed numerous accounts of Catholic worship and piety which the Reformers rejected.

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CVST. No no, I know them well ynough.

VERI. So wel as you know them, for all old acquaintaunce if they be called to witnes they will giue euidence agaynst you. For S. Augustine commonly in euery of his bookes, but chiefly in an Epistle to his frend Dardanus,declareth that Christes body is placed in one rowme. I meruall you be not nearer of his coūsell. His wordes are these: Noli dubitare ibi nunc esse hominem Christum Iesum, vnde venturus est. Memoriterq̀ recole & fideliter crede Christianam confessionem: quoniā resurrexit, ascēdit in cœlum, sedet a dextris Dei patris:nec aliundè q̃ indè venturus est, ad viuos mortuosq̀ iudicandos. Et venturus est in eadē corporis substantia: cui immortalitatem dedit, naturam non abstulit. Secundum hanc formā non est putandus vbiq̀ diffusus. Cauendum enim est, ne ita diuinitatem astruamus hominis, vt humanitatem amittamus Dei. i. MarginaliaAugust. ad Dardanum.Do not doubt the mā Iesus Christ to be there, from vvhence he shall come. And remember vvell, and faythfully beleue the Christen confeßion, that hee is rysen, ascended into heauen, sitteth at the ryght hand of God the father, and from thence shall come and from no other place, to iudge the quicke and dead. And shall come in the same substaūce of body, to vvhich hee gaue immortalitie, and tooke not the nature from it. After this forme he is to be thought not to be dispersed in all places, for vve must bevvare so to defend his Diuinitie, that vve destroy not hys humanitie. And in an other place of þe same Epistle. Vna persona Deus & homo, & vtrumq̀ est vnus Christus. Vbiq̀ per id quod Deus, in cælo autem per id quod homo. MarginaliaAugust. ibid.Likewise vpon the xiiij. Psalme. Donec sæculum finiatur sursum est Dominus: sed etiam hic nobiscum est veritas Domini. Corpus enim in quo resurrexit, in vno loco esse oportet, veritas autē eius vbique diffusa est. i. MarginaliaAugust. in Psal. 14.VVhile the vvorld shall last, the Lorde is aboue, and also the veritie of the Lord is vvith vs. For the body vvherein he rose agayne must be in one place. But the veritie of hym is euery vvhere dispersed. In lyke maner writeth Damasus an old Byshop of Rome in his Credo. Deuictis mortis imperijs, cum ea carne in qua natus, & passus est, & resurrexit, ascendit in cælum, manente eadem natura carnis in qua natus & passus est. MarginaliaDamasus.S. Ambrose writyng vpō the x. chapt. of Luke recordeth the same: Ergo, nec supra terrā, nec in terra, nec secundū terrā quærere debemus dominū, si volumus inuenire. Nō enim supra terrā quæsiuit qui stantē ad Dei dextrā vidit. Maria quærebat in terra tangere Christū & nō potuit. Stephanus tetigit quia quærebat in cœlo. i. MarginaliaAmbros. in 10. cap. Luc.VVherfore, neither aboue the earth, nor vpō the earth, nor accordyng to the earth vve ought to seke the lord, if vve vvill find him: For he did not seke him aboue the earth vvhich did see him sitting at the right hād. And Mary sought vpō the earth to touch Christ, and could not. Steuē touched him because hee sought him in heauē. S. Hierome in an epistle to Marcella proueth þt the body of Christ must nedes be conteined in some place, for he sayth: Veri Dei est vbiq̀ esse: veri hominis alicubi esse. i. MarginaliaHieron. ad Marcellā.The propertie of God is to be euery vvhere: the property of man is to be in one place. The same Hierome in an other place calleth it a foolishe thyng to seeke for him in a narrow place, or in a corner, which is the light of all the world: Stultum est eum paruo in loco, vel abscondito quærere, qui totius mundi est lumen. i. MarginaliaHieron.Foolishnes it is, in a small place or in a hyd corner to seeke hym vvhich is the light of the vvhole vvorld. Origene sayth likewise: Audiēdi non sunt qui Christum demonstrant in ædibus. i. MarginaliaOrigenes.They are not to bee heard, vvhich shevve Christ in houses. The same also recordeth Beda, writyng vppon these woordes of Christ: Novv a litle vvhile shall you see me. He speaketh in Christes person. Therefore (sayth he) shall you see me but a little vvhile after my resurrection, because I vvill not still abyde in the earth bodily, but in the manhode vvhich I haue taken, vvill ascend vp to heauen. MarginaliaBeda in 17. cap. Ioan.What nedeth more wordes? Al the old fathers witnesseth the same. You may by these soone iudge the rest. Now to returne to the matter, seing that the worde of God in many and sondry places, the Credo and the abrigement of the fayth, seyng all the olde fathers do cōstantly agree in one, that the body of Christ is ascended into heauen and there remaineth at the right hande of the father, and can not bee more then in one place, MarginaliaThe Sacrament is not the reall body of Christ, and why?I do conclude that the Sacrament is not the body of Christ: first because it is not in heauen, neither sitteth at the fathers right hād: moreouer because it is in an hūdreth thousād boxes 

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'Boxes': tabernacles or pyxes used for reserving the Sacrament.

, where as Christes body filleth but one place. Furthermore if the bread were turned into the body of Christ, then would it necessarely folow, that sinners and vnpenitent persons receiue the body of Christ. 
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The Protestant reply to the Catholic view regarding whether the wicked actually receive Christ's body and blood. Catholics would say they do, but to their own condemnation. Protestants would say that faith is necessary to truly receive the sacrament, and since the wicked cannot have faith, they receive merely bread. The latter stance rests upon Luther's doctrine of justification by faith alone: one cannot possess faith and be a graver sinner at the same time. Catholics responded that one could, the greatest example being the devil, who knew God and yet rejected God.

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CVST. Mary 

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'Marie': contraction of a mild oath - 'by Saint Mary'.

and so they do. For Paul sayth playnly that they receiue the bodye of Christ to their owne confusion.

MarginaliaThe wicked receiue not the bodye of Christ.VERI. No not so. These are not Paules woordes, but hee sayth: VVho so eateth of thys bread, and drincketh of thys cuppe vnvvorthely, eateth and drincketh hys ovvne condemnation, not iudging the bodye of the Lorde. Here hee calleth it in playne wordes bread. And although the sacramēt be very bread, yet doth the iniury redound to the body of Christ. As if a man breake the kinges Mace, or

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