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1611 [1549]

Queene Mary. Disputation in the Conuocation house about the reall presence.

Marginalia1553.God into heauen and adioyned vnto the deitye, was by the might therof absorpt and turned into one substaunce with the deity: so that now there remayneth but one diuine substaunce in Christ, no more then in the Sacramētall signes of the Lordes Supper after the consecration doth remayne any more then one substance accordyng to your belief and construction.

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MarginaliaThe false exposition of Doctor Moreman vpon Theodoretus, ouerthrowen.In aunsweryng to this, Doct. Moreman stackered. Whose defect Philpot perceiuyng, spake on this wyse. Well M. Moreman if you haue no aunswere at this present ready, I pray you deuise one if you can cōueniently agaynst our next meting here agayne.

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With that hys saying the Prolocutor was greuously offended, MarginaliaWeston is offended. tellyng hym that hee should not bragge there, but that he should be fully aunswered. Then sayd Philpot: It is the thyng that I onely desyre, to be aunswered directly in this behalfe, and I desire of you and of all the house at this present, that I may be sufficiently aunswered, which I am sure you are not able to do, sauyng Theodoretes authority and similitude vpryght as he ought to be taken. MarginaliaPhilpots replication aunswered by cōmaūding him to silence.None other aūswere then was made to Philpots reasons, but that he was commaunded to silence.

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Then stode vp the MarginaliaThys man called M. Phillips continued Deane of Rochester all Quene Maryes tyme and yet still so remaineth. Deane of Rochester offryng hym selfe to reason in the first question agaynst the naturall presence, wishyng that the Scripture and the auncient Doctours in this poynt myght be weyed, beleued and folowed. And agaynst this naturall presence he thought the saying of Christ in S. Mathew to make sufficiently ynough, if mē would credite & folow scripture: who sayd there of him selfe that poore men we shoulde haue alway with vs, but hym we should not haue alwayes: which was spoken, quoth he, concernyng the naturall presence of Christes body: therefore we ought to beleue as hee hath taught, that Christ is not naturally present on earth in the Sacrament of the altare.

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MarginaliaWestons answere to the Deane.To this was aunswered by the Prolocutor that we should not haue Christ present alwayes to exercise almes deedes vpon hym, but vpon the poore.

MarginaliaThe Deanes replicatiō.But the Deane prosecuted hys Argument, & shewed it out of S. Austen further, that the same interpretation of the Scripture alledged was no sufficient aunswere, who writeth in the fifty treatyse vpon S. Iohn on this wyse of the same sentence: VVhē as he sayd, (sayth S. Austen, MarginaliaAugust. in Ioan. Tract. 50.
A notable authoritie out of S. August.
) me shall ye not haue alvvayes vvith you, he spake of the presence of his body. For by his Maiesty, by hys prouidence, by hys vnspeakeable and vnuisible grace, that is fulfilled vvhich is sayd of hym, beholde I am vvith you vntill the consummation of the vvorlde. But in the flesh vvhich the vvorde tooke vppon hym, in that vvhich vvas borne of the Virgine, in that vvhich vvas apprehended of the Ievves, vvhich vvas crucified on the Crosse, vvhich vvas let dovvne frō the Crosse, vvhich vvas vvrapped in cloutes, vvhich vvas hydden in the Sepulchre, vvhich vvas manifested in the resurrection, you shall not haue me alvvayes vvith you. And vvhy? For after a bodily presence he vvas conuersant vvith his Disciples xl. dayes, and they accompanying hym, seyng and not folovvyng hym, hee ascended and is not here: for there he sitteth at the ryght hand of the father: and yet here he is, because he is not departed in the presence of his Maiesty. After an other maner vve haue Christ alvvayes by presence of hys Maiestie: but after the presence of hys flesh, it is ryghtly sayd: You shal not verely haue me alwaies with you. For the Church had hym in the presence of his flesh a fevv dayes, and novv by fayth it apprehendeth hym and seeth hym, not vvith eyes.

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MarginaliaWatsons answere to S. Augustine.To this authority Doct. Watson tooke vppon hym to aunswere, and sayd he would aūswere S. Austen by S. Austen, and hauyng a certayne booke in hys hand of notes, he alledged out of the lxxxx.  

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Once again, the text is occasionally altered by typographical errors in the edition of 1576. A reference to Augustine's 'xc' treatise on St. John (Trew report, sig. B4v), rendered as 'lxxxx' in 1563 (p. 908) and 1570 (p. 1513) became '70' in 1576 (p. 1513) and was reprinted as '70' in 1583 (p. 1412).

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treatyse vppon S. Iohn, MarginaliaAugust. in Ioan. Tract. 90. that after that mortall condition and maner we haue not now Christ on the earth, as hee was heretofore before hys Passion.

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Against whose aunswer Iohn Philpot replied and said MarginaliaPhilpot agaynst Watson.þt M. Watson had not fully aunswered S. Austine by S. Austine as he would seeme to haue done, for that in the place aboue mencioned by Maister Deane of Rochester, hee doth not only teach the mortal state of Christes body before hys passion, but also the immortall condicion of the same after his resurrection: in the whych mortall body S. Austine seemeth playnly to affirme that Christ is not present vpon the earth, neyther in forme visibly, neyther in corporall substance inuisibly: as in few lines after the place aboue alledged, S. Austine doth more playnly declare by these wordes, saying: Novve these tvvo maners of Christes presence declared, vvhich is by his maiestye, prouidence, and grace novv present in the vvorld, vvhych before his ascension vvas present in the flesh, and being novv placed at the right hand of the father is absent in the same from the vvorld, I thinke (saith S. Austine) that there remayneth no other question in this matter. Now, quoth Philpot, if S. Austine. acknowledged no

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more presēce of Christ to be now on earth, but onely his diuine presence, and touching his humanitie to bee in heauē: we ought to confesse and beleue the same. But if we put a third presence of Christ, that is, corporally to be present alwayes in the sacrament of the aultar inuisibly, according to your suppositions, whereof S. Austine maketh no mencion at all in all hys workes: you shal seeme to iudge that which S. Austine did neuer comprehend.

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MarginaliaWatson.Why, quoth Watson, S. Austine in the place by me alledged, maketh he not mencion howe S. Steuen beyng in thys world saw Christ after his ascension?

MarginaliaPhilpot.It is true sayd Philot, but he saw Christ, as the scripture telleth, in the heauens being open, standing at the right hand of God the father. Further to thys Watson aunswered not.

MarginaliaD. Weston.Then the Prolocutor went about to furnish vp an answer to S. Austine, saying that he is not now in the world after that maner of bodily presence, but yet present for al that in hys body.

MarginaliaPhilpot replyeth to Weston.To whom Philpot aunswered, that the Prolocutour dyd grate much vpon this worde secundum in S. Austine, whych signifieth after the maner, or in forme: but he doth not answere to id quod, which is that thing or substance of Christ in the which Christ suffered, arose, and ascended into heauen: in the which thing and substance he is in heauen and not on earth, as Saint Austine in the place specified most clearely doth defyne.

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MarginaliaThe Deane of Rochester.To this nothing els being aunswered, the Deane of Rochester proceded in the maintenaunce of hys argument and read out of a booke of annotations, sondry authorities for the confirmation thereof. To the which MarginaliaMoreman. Moreman, who was appoynted to answere him, made no direct answere but bad him make an argument, saying that M. Deane had recited many wordes of Doctours, but he made not one argument.

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Then sayd the Deane, the authorities of the Doctors by me rehearsed, be sufficient argumentes to proue myne intente, to the which my desyre is to be answered of you. But still Moreman cryed, make an argument, to shift of the authority which he could not answere vnto. After this the Deane made this argument out of the institution of the sacrament: do this in remembraunce of me: and thus ye shall shevv forth the Lords death vntil he come.

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MarginaliaArgument.The sacrament is the remembrance of Christ: Ergo the sacrament is not very Christ: for yet hee is not come. For these wordes, vntill hee come, doe plainely signifie the absence of Christes body. MarginaliaWeston aunswereth to the argument. Than the Prolocutour went about to shew that these woordes: vntill he come, did not import any absence of Christ on the earth, by other places of scripture, where MarginaliaDonec in Scripture.donec,vntill, was vsed in lyke sense: but directly to the purpose he aunswered nothing.

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MarginaliaM. Deanes questions.In conclusion the Deane fell to questioning wyth Moremā, whether Christ did eate the Paschal lambe with his disciples or no? He aunswered, yea. Futher, he demaunded whether hee eate likewise the sacrament wyth them, as hee dyd institute it? Moreman aunswered: yea. Then he asked what he did eate, and whether he eate his owne naturall body as they imagine it to bee, or no? Which whē Moreman had affirmed, MarginaliaMoreman affirmeth that Christ did eate his owne body. then said the Deane, it is a great absurdity by you graūted, & so he sat downe.

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MarginaliaPhilpot.Against thys absurdity Philpot stoode vp and argued, saying hee coulde proue it by good reason deduced out of scripture, that Christ eate not hys own naturall body at the institution of the sacrament: & the reason is thys.

MarginaliaArgument.Ba-
Receauing of Christes body hath a promise of re
mission of sinnes with it annexed.
ro-
Christ eating the Sacrament had no promise of re
mission of sinne:
co.
Ergo, Christ in the Sacrament dyd not eate hys own
body.  
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Thus when Philpot argued that 'The body of Christ givyn by the sacrament hath a promes of remission of synnis adjoyned vnto all them that receyve it dewely, but this promes could take no effect in chryst, ergo christ ate not his own body in the sacrament', (Trew report, sigs. B6v-B7r; 1563, p. 909); Foxe changed this to 'Receaving of Christes body hath a promise of remission of sinnes with it annexed, Christ eating the Sacrament had no promise of remission of sinne, ergo, Christ in the Sacrament dyd not eate his own body' (1570, p. 1573; 1576, p. 1342; 1583, p. 1412).

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MarginaliaMoreman denyeth the Sacrament to haue a promise of remission of sinnes annexed vnto it.To thys reason Moreman aunswered, denying the former part of the argument, that the sacrament had a promise of remission of synnes annexed vnto it.

MarginaliaPhilpot.Then Philpot shewed this to be the promise in the sacrament: VVhych is geuen for you, vvhich is shed for you, for the remißion of sinnes. But Moreman would not acknowledge that to be any promise, so that he droue Philpot to the. vj. of S. Iohn, to vouch thys saying with these wordes: The bread vvhich I vvyll geue is my flesh, vvhich I vvyll geue for the lyfe of the vvorld.

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Moreman aunswering nothing directly to thys argument, Harpsfield start vp to supply that whych wanted in his behalfe, & thinking to haue aunswered Philpot, cōfyrmed more strongly his argument, saying: MarginaliaHarpsfield affyrmeth that which hys fellowe denyed. ye mistake the promise whych is annexed to the body of Christ in the sacrament: for it pertained not to Christ, but to hys Disci-

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ples,
HHHh.iiij.
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