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1642 [1604]

Quene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Cranmer Archbishop of Cant. at Oxford.

MarginaliaAn. 1554. Aprill.Yong. If he worke in the sacramentes, he worketh in this sacrament.

Cran. God worketh in his faythfull, not in the Sacramentes.

West. In the supper the wordes are directed to the bread: in Baptisme to the spirit. He said not, the water is the spirit: but of the bread he said: This is my body.

MarginaliaAs the Doue is called the spirite: so the bread is called the body.Cran. He called the spirit a Doue, when the spirite descended in likenes of a Doue. 

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The Rerum reads 'columbum vocat spiritum, cum spiritus descenderet in specie columbae' (Rerum, p. 655). Someone with an uncertain grasp of both theology and Latin translated this as 'he called the dove the spirit, when the spirit descended in lykeness of a dove' (1563, p. 953). In later editions, this was corrected to 'he calleth the spirit a Dove, when the spirite descended in likeness of a Dove' (1570, p. 1604; 1576, p. 1368; 1583, p. 1439). This is a recurring issue in the 1570 edition: the need to correct faulty Latin translations made in the 1563 edition.

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West. He doth not call the spirit a Doue: but he saith, that he descended as a Doue. He was seene in the likenes of a Doue. As in Baptisme, the wordes are directed to him that is baptised, so in the supper the wordes are directed vnto the bread.

Cran. Nay it is wrytten: MarginaliaIohn. 1.Vpon whomsoeuer thou shalt see the spirite descendyng. He calleth that which descended, the holy spirite. And Augustine callleth the doue the spirite. Heare what Augustine sayth in. 1. Iohan. MarginaliaAugust. in Ioan. cap. 1.Quid voluit per columbam, id est, per spiritum sanctum? docere, qui miserat eum. That is: What ment he by the Doue, that is, by the holy ghost? forsooth to teach who sent hym.

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Yong. He vnderstandeth of the spirite descending as a Doue: the spirite is inuisible. If you mynd to haue þe truth heard, let vs procede. Heare what Ambrose saith Vides quam operatorius sit sermo Christi. Si ergo tanta vis in sermone domini. &c. vt supra MarginaliaAmbrose again repeated. De Sacram. cap. 4. That is, You see what a working power the worde of Christ hath. 

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In the edition of 1563, no translation was provided for the sentence 'Vides quam sit sermo Christi' (1563, p. 953). A sentence translating this as 'You see what a working power the word of Christ hath' was added in the 1570 edition (see textual variant 53).

Therefore if there be so great power in the Lordes word, that those thinges which were not, begyn to bee, how much more of strength is it to worke that those thinges that were, should be chaunged into an other thing?

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And in the fift chap. MarginaliaIdem cap. 5.Antequam consecretur, panis est: vbi autem verba Christi accesserint, corpus est Christ. i. Before it be cōsecrated, it is bread: but when the wordes of Christ come to it, it is the body of Christ.

But heare what he saith more: Accipite, edite, hoc est corpus meum: Take ye, eate ye, this is my body. Ante verba Christi calix est vini & aquæ plenus: vbi verba Christi operata fuerint, ibi sanguis efficitur qui redemit plebem. That is: Before the woordes of Christ, the cup is full of wyne and water: when the wordes of Christ haue wrought, there is made the bloud of Christ, which redemed the people. What can be more playne?

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MarginaliaAunswere to Ambrose.Cran. Nay, what can be lesse to the purpose? The wordes are of strength to worke in this sacrament, as they are in Baptisme.

Pie. The wordes of Christ (as Ambrose sayth) are of strength to worke. What do they woorke? Ambrose saith, they make the bloud which redeemed the people.

Ergo the naturall bloud is made.

Cran. The sacramēt of his bloud is made. The words make the bloud to them that receiue it: not that the bloud is in the cup, but in the receiuer.

Pie. Ther is made the blood which redeemed þe people.

Cran. The bloud is made: that is, þe sacrament of the bloud, by which he redeemed þe people. [Fit] it is made: that is to say [ostenditur] it is shewed forth there. And Ambrose sayth: we receyue in a similitude. As thou hast receaued the similitude of his death, so also thou drinkest the similitude of his precious bloud.

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MarginaliaMarke how D. Weston expoundeth, to eate in a similitude.West. He sayth in a similitude, because it is ministred vnder an other likenes. And this is the argument.

* Marginalia* If this Syllogisme be in the 2. figure (as by stādyng of the termes appeareth) then is it false, because it concludeth affyrmatiuely. There is made the bloud which redemed the people.

But the naturall bloud redeemed the people:

Ergo there is the naturall bloud of Christ.

You aunswere, that wordes make it bloud to them that receiue it: not that bloud is in the cup, but because it is made bloud to them that receiue it. That all men may see, how falsely you would auoyde the Fathers, heare what Ambrose saith in the sixt booke & first chap.

MarginaliaAmbros lib. 6. cap. 1. De Sacramentis.Forte dicas, quomodo vera? qui similitudinem video, non video sanguinis veritatem. Primum omnium dixi tibi de sermone Christi qui operatur, vt possit mutare & conuertere genera instituta naturæ. Deinde vbi non tulerunt sermonem discipuli eius, sed audientes, quod carnem suam dedit man-

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ducari, & sanguinem suum dedit bibendum, recedebant. MarginaliaOperari. Mutare: cōuertere. Solus tamen Petrus dixit: verba vitæ æternæ habes, & ego a te quo recedam? Ne igitur plures hoc dicerent, veluti quidem esset horror cruoris, sed maneret gratia redemptionis, ideo in similitudinem quidem accipis sacramentum, sed verè naturæ gratiam virtutemq; consequeris. That is to say.

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Peraduēture thou wilt say, how be they true? I which see the similitude, do not see þe truth of the bloud. Fyrst of all I told thee of þe word of Christ, which so worketh, that it can chaunge and turne kindes ordeined of nature. Afterward, when the disciples could not abide the wordes of Christ, but hearing that he gaue his flesh to eate, & hys bloud to drinke, they departed: Onely Peter sayd, thou hast the wordes of eternall life: whether should I go frō thee? Lest therefore mo should say this thing, as though there should be a certaine horror of bloud, and yet the grace of redemption should remaine: therefore in a similitude thou receiuest the sacrament: but in deede thou obtainest the grace and power of his nature.

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MarginaliaAnswere to Ambrose.Cran. These words of them selues are plain enough. (And he read this place againe, thou receauest the Sacrament for a similitude.) But what is that he sayth: Thou receauest for a similitude? I thinke he vnderstandeth the sacrament to be the similitude of his bloud.

 

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Chedsey addressed Cranmer as 'dominatio tua' in the Rerum (p. 656) and 'your Lordship' in 1563 (p. 954); this is changed to 'you' in 1570, p. 1604; 1576, p. 1369; 1583, p. 1439. Here Foxe again changes the text to make the catholics appear more rude and more disrespectful to Cranmer.

Ched. That you may vnderstand that truth dissenteth not from truth, to ouerthrowe that which you say of that similitude, heare what Ambrose sayth, lib. 4. De sacrament.

MarginaliaAmbros. De Sacram. Lib. 4.Si operatus est sermo cœlestis in alijs rebus, non operatur in sacramentis cœlestibus? Ergo didicisti quod e pane corpus fiat Christi, & quòd vinum & aqua in calicem mittitur, sed sit sanguis consecratione verbi cœlestis. Sed forte dices, speciem sanguinis consecratione verbi cœlestis. Sed forte dices, speciem sanguinis non videri. Sed habet similitudinem. Sicut enim mortis similitudinem sumpsisti, ita etiam similitudinem pretiosi sanguinis bibis, vt nullus horror cruoris sit, & pretiū tamen operetur redemptionis. Didicisti ergo, quia quod accipis, corpus est Christi. That is to say.

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If the heauenly word did worke in other things, doth it not worke in the heauenly sacraments? Therfore thou hast learned, that of bread is made the body or Christ: and that wyne and water is put into that cup: but by consecration of the heauenly word, it is made bloud. But thou wilt saye peraduenture, that the lykenes of bloud is not seene. But it hath a similitude. For as thou hast receyued the similitude of his death, so also MarginaliaNote that Ambrose saith: we drinke a similitude of Christes bloud.thou drinkest the similitude of his precious bloud, so that there is no horror of bloud, and yet it worketh the price of redemption. Therfore thou hast learned, that that which thou receyuest, is the body of Christ.

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MarginaliaAnswere to the place of Ambrose.Cran. He speaketh of Sacraments sacramentally. He calleth the Sacramentes by the names of the thinges: for he vseth the signes for the things signified: and therfore the bread is not called bread, but his body, for the excellencie and dignitye of the thyng signified by it. MarginaliaSacramentes be called by the name of the things. So doth Ambrose interprete him selfe, when he sayth: In cuius typum nos calicem mysticum sanguinis ad tuitionem corporis & animæ nostræ percepimus. 1. Cor. 11. That is, MarginaliaAmbros. in 1. Cor. cap. 11. for a type or figure whereof we receyue the mysticall cup of his bloud, for the safegard of our bodies and soules.

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Ched. A type? he calleth not the bloud of Christ a type or signe: but the bloud of Buls and Goates in that respect was a type or signe.

Cran. This is new learning: you shall neuer read this among the Fathers.

Ched. But Ambrose sayth so.

Cran. He calleth the bread and the cup a type or signe of the bloud of Christ, and of his benefite.

West. Ambrose vnderstandeth, for a type of hys benefite, that is, of redemption: not of the bloud of Christ, but of hys passion. The cup is the type or signe of his death, seing it is hys bloud.

MarginaliaAmbrose alleaged agaynst Ambrose.Cran. He sayth most playnly, that the cup is the type of Christes bloud.

MarginaliaArgument.

da-
Ched. As Christ is truly and really incarnate, so
is he truly and really in the Sacrament.
riBut Christ is really and truly incarnate:
j.
Ergo the body of Christ is truely and really in the
sacrament.

Cran.
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