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1650 [1612]

Quene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Ridley Byshoy of London atOxford.

MarginaliaAn. 1554. Aprill.tifyer of vs all, be now and for euer all honour and glory. Amen.

 

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In the 1570 edition, Foxe inserted a note making clear a fact which had gone unremarked in previous editions: that Ridley had not been allowed to read his prepared statements (the three propositions together with supporting arguments) which Foxe nevertheless printed (see textual variant 57). Since this material was printed in the Rerum and in all editions but had not been part of the disputation, this is further corroboration that Foxe's account of Ridley's disputation was not based on the notaries' transcripts of the disputations.

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Albeit this learned Byshop was not suffered to read all that is aboue prefixed before the Disputations, yet because he had it then ready, and offered it vp to the Prolocutour after the Disputations and sentence pronounced: I thought here the place not vnmeete to annexe the same together with the rest. Now let vs heare the Argumentes and answeres betwene Doct. Smith and hym.

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¶ D. Smith beginneth to oppose.

SMith. You haue occasioned me to go otherwise to worke with you, then I had thought to haue done. Me seemed you did in your supposition abuse the testimonyes of Scripture concernyng the Ascension of Christ, to take away hys presence in the Sacrament, as though this were a strong Argumēt to inforce your matter withall:

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Christ did ascend into heauen.

Ergo, he is not in the Sacrament.

Now therfore I will go about to disproue this reason of yours.

MarginaliaSmythes Argument.Christes Ascension is no let to hys reall presence in the Sacrament.

Ergo, you are deceiued, whereas you do groūd your selfe vpon those places.

MarginaliaAunswere.Ryd. You import as though I had made a strong Argument by Christes goyng vp into heauen. But how soeuer myne Argumēt is made, you collect it not rightly. For it doth not onely stay vpon his Ascension, but both vpon his Ascension, and his * Marginalia* The veritie of M. Ridleys aunswere, touching the reall being of Christ in earth to be restrayned by hys ascending and abiding in heauen, standeth vpon a neceßitie, which we call [Necessitas consequentiæ] by thys demonstration:

Da-
Euery naturall body must necessarily bee con-
teyned in hys peculiar and certayne place.
ri-Christes body is a naturall body:
j.
Ergo, Christes body not to bee in one certayne
place at once conteyned, it is impoßible, accor-
dyng to the rule: Omnes propositiones de
impossibili et de necesse equipollent dicto
dissimiliter se habēti, et modo similiter.

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Smith. Christes going vp to heauen, and his abydyng there, hynder not hys reall presence in the Sacrament.

Ergo, you are deceyued.

Ryd. Of Christes reall presence there may bee a double vnderstandyng, if you take the real presence of Christ accordyng to the real and corporall substāce which he tooke of the Virgine: that presence beyng in heauen, cannot be on the earth also. But if you meane a reall presence, secundū rem aliquam quæ ad corpus Christ pertinet i. according to some thing that appertaineth to Christes body, certes the Ascension and abydyng in heauen are no let at all to that presence. Wherfore Christes body after that sort is here present to vs in the Lordes Supper: by grace I say, as Epiphanius speaketh it.

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West. I will cut of from henceforth all equiuocation and doubt. For when soeuer we speake of Christes body, we meane that which he tooke of the Virgyn.

Ryd. Christes Ascension and abydyng in heauen can not stand with this presence.

MarginaliaArgument.Smith. Christ appeared corporally & really on the earth, for all his Ascension and continuall abode in heauen vnto the day of Dome.

Ergo, his Ascension and abydyng in heauen is no let to hys reall presence in the Sacrament.

MarginaliaAunswere.Ryd. Maister Doctour, this Argument is nothyng worth. I do not so straitly tye Christ vp in heauen, that he may not come down into the earth at hys pleasure. For when he will, he may come downe from heauen, and be on the earth, as it lyketh hym selfe. Howbeit I do affirme that it is not possible for hym to be both in heauen and earth at one tyme.

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Smith. Marke, I pray you my Maisters, diligētly that be here, what he aunswereth. First he sayth that the sittyng of Christ at right hand of his father, is a let to the reall presence of his body in the Sacrament: and then afterward he flyeth from it agayne.

Ryd. I would not haue you thincke that I do ima-

gine or dreame vpon any such maner of sitting, as these men here sit in the Schole.

Smith. Ergo, it is lawfull for Christ then to be here present on the earth, when he will hym selfe.

Ryd. Yea, when he will, it is lawfull in deede.

Smith. Ergo, hys ascendyng into heauen doth not restrayne hys reall presence in the Sacrament.

MarginaliaChristes abode in heauen is no let for hym to appeare on earth whē hee will: but whether he wil that must be proued. Agayne, it is one thyng to appeare on earth, an other still in the Sacrament, and to be present the same time with hys body in heauen, when he is bodily present in earth.Ryd. I do not gaynsay, but that it is lawfull for hym to appeare on the earth when he will: but proue you that he will.

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Smith. Then your aunswere dependeth vpō the will of Christ, I perceiue. Therfore I wil ioyne agayne with you in this short Argument.

Christ, albeit he doth alway abyde in heauen after his ascension, was seene really & corporally on the earth.

Ergo, notwithstandyng hys Ascension and continuall sittyng at the ryght hand of the father, he may be really and corporally in the Sacrament.

Ryd. If the Notaries should so record your Argumēt, as you haue framed it, you peraduenture would be ashamed therof hereafter.

Smith. Christ after hys Ascensiō was seene really and corporally vpon the earth.

Ergo, notwithstandyng hys Ascension and abydyng with his father, he may be corporally in the Sacramēt.

Ryd. I graunt the antecedent: but I deny the consequent.

Smith. Do you graunt the antecedent?

Ryd. Yea, I graunt the antecedent. I am content to let you haue so much, because I know that there be certaine auncient fathers of that opinion. I am well content to let you vse that proposition as true. And I will frame the Argument for you.

He was seene on earth after his Ascension. Ergo. &c.

Smith. Nay, nay, I will frame it my selfe.

Christ after hys Ascension was seene really and corporally on earth, albeit he do abyde in heauen continually:

Ergo, notwithstandyng his Ascension and continuall abidyng at the right hand of the father, he may be really and corporally on the earth.

MarginaliaChristes continuall sitting in heauen expended.Ryd. Let vs first agree about the continuall sittyng at the right hand of the father.

Smith. Doth he so sit at the right hand of his father, that he doth neuer forsake the same?

Ryd. Nay, I do not bynd Christ in heauen so straitly. I see you go about to beguile me with your equiuocations. Such equiuocatiōs are to be distincted. If you meane by his sittyng in heauen, to reigne with hys father, he may be both in heauen and also in earth. But if ye vnderstand his stttyng to be after a corporall maner of sittyng, so he is alwayes permanent in heauen. MarginaliaChrist can not be both corporally here, & corporally also in heauen at one tyme.For Christ to be corporally here on earth, when corporally he is resident in heauen, is cleane contrary to the holy Scriptures: As Austen sayth: Corpus Christi est in cœlo, sed veritas eius vbiq; diffusa est. i. The body of Christ is in heauē: but his truth is dispersed in euery place.

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Now, if continually he abide in heauen after the maner of his corporall presence, then his perpetuall abydyng there, stoppeth or letteth that the same corporall presence of hym cannot be in the Sacrament.

Smith. Actes 3. we read that Christ shall sit perpetually at the right hand of God, vnto the consummatiō of the world.

West. I perceiue you are come here to this issue, whether the body of Christ may be together both in earth and in heauen. I will tell you, that Christ in very deede is both in earth and in heauē together and at one tyme, both one and the same naturall Christ after the veritie and substaunce of his very body. Ergo. &c.

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Ryd. I deny the antecedent.

West. I proue it by ij. witnesses. First by Chrysost. MarginaliaChrysost. Hom. 17. ad Hebræos.Hom. 17. ad Hebræos. Nōne per singulos dies offerimus? Offerimus quidem, sed recordationem facientes mortis eius. Et vna est hæc hostia, non multæ Et quomodo vna, & non multæ, quæ semel oblata est in sancto sanctorum? Hoc autem sacrificium exēplar est illius: id ipsum semper offerimus, nec nunc quidem alium agnum, crastina alium, sed semper eun-

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dem
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