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976 [976]

K. Henry. 8. Defence of Rich. Hunne agaynst Cope.

ticque, and also a desperate homicide of hym self: Which as is false in the one: so is to be found as vntrue in þe other, if simple truth, whiche hath few frendes, and many tymes cōmeth in crafty handling, might freely come in indifferent hearyng. Wherefore as I haue hetherto described the order and maner of his handlyng with the circūstances thereof, in playne and naked narration of story, simplely layd out before all mēs faces: so somethyng here to intermit, in the defense as well of his oppressed cause, as also in discharge of me self, MarginaliaAunswere for Rich. Hunne agaynst Syr Thomas More knyght.I will now compendiously aunswere to both these foresayd aduersaries, stopping as it were, with one bushe two gappes, and the mouthes also, if I can, of them both together. MarginaliaSyr Thomas More hauing many good vertues, but one great vice.And first agaynst Syr Thomas More, albeit in degree worshypful, in place superiour, in wytt and learnyng singular (if hys iudgement in Christes matters had bene correspondent to the same) otherwise beyng a man with many worthy ornamentes beautified, 

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A fascinating acknowledgement by Foxe of More's virtues; it is compelling evidence of the esteem in which More was held by even Elizabethan Protestants.

MarginaliaThe person of Syr Thomas More coūteruayled.yet beyng but a mā, and one mā, I lay and obiect agaynst the person of him, the persons & censures of xxiiij. questmen, the deposition of so many Iurates, the iudgement of the Crowner, the approbatiō of the Parleament, and lastly þe kynges Bill assigned for restitution of hys goodes, with his owne broad seale confirmed. &c. And thus much to the person and credite of Syr Thomas More.

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MarginaliaThe reasons of syr Thomas More refuted.Now as touchyng hys reasons, wheras he cōming in with a flimme flāme for a horse mylne, or a mylne horse (in hys owne termes I speake) thinketh it probatiō good ynough because hee could not see hym taken by the sleue, which murdered Hunne: 

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Foxe is quoting from More's account of the Hunne affair (CWTM, 6, I, p. 319).

agaynst these reasons vnreasonable of hys, I allege all the euidences and demonstrations of the hystorie aboue prefixed, to bee considered, and of all indifferent men to be peased.

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MarginaliaThe circumstances of Hunnes hanging considered.First, 

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Foxe doesn't bother to rebut More's arguments directly; instead, he goes right into repeating the damning report of the coroner's inquest on Hunne.

how he was found hangyng, with his countenance fayre, with his beard and head fayre kemmed, hys bonet ryght set on hys head, with hys eyen and mouth fayre closed, without any dryuelyng or spurgyng. His body beyng take downe was found loose, (whiche by hangyng could not be) his necke brokē, and the skynne therof beneath the throte where the gyrdle went, frette and faced awaye, his gyrdle notwithstandyng beyng of silke, and so double cast about the staple, that the space of the gyrdle betwene the staple and his necke, with the residue also whiche went about hys necke, was not sufficient for his head to come out. His handes moreouer wrōg in the wristes, hys face, lyppes, chinne, doublet, and shyrt coller vnstayned with any bloud: when as notwithstandyng in a maner somewhat beyond the place, where he did hāg, a great quantitie of bloud was found. Also where as þe staple, wheron he hāged, was so, þt he coulde not clym therto, without some meane, there was a stoole set vp vpon þe bolster of a bed so tickle, þt with the least touch in þe world it was ready to fall. And how was it possible that Hunne might hang him selfe vppon that staple, the stole so standyng? Besides þe confessiō moreouer of Charles Iosephs owne mouth to Iulian Littell, of Robert Iohnsonne, Iohn Spaldyng the Belrynger, Peter Turner, & others. All whiche testimonyes and declarations beyng so clere, & vndeniable, may suffice (I trust) any indifferent mā, to see where þe truth of this case doth stand: Onles M. More beyng a gentleman of Vtopia, MarginaliaVtopia Mori.perauenture after some straunge guyse of that countrey, vseth to carye hys eyes not in hys head, but in hys affectiō, not seyng, but where he liketh: nor beleuyng, but what hym lysteth.

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Finally where Syr Thomas More speakyng of hym selfe, so concludeth, that he hearyng in the matter, what well might be sayd, yet could not finde contrary, but Hunne to bee giltie of hys owne death 

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See CWTM, 6, I, pp. 326-7. In his Apology, More claimed that, after speaking with Hunne, he had worried that Hunne would kill himself (CWTM 9, p.126).

: so in as many wordes to aunswere hym agayne, I perusing and searchyng in the story of Richard Hunne, what may well be searched, can not but meruell with me selfe, either with what darkenes the eyes of M. More be dared, not to see, that is so playne, or els with what conscience he would dissemble, that shame can not deny. And thus by the way to the Dialogues of Syr Thomas More. 
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More's Dialogue Concerning Heresies which contains More's account of the Hunne affair (CWTM, 6, I, pp. 217-30).

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MarginaliaAunswere to Alanus Copus for Richard Hunne.Thyrdly touching þe Dialogues of Alen Cope, 

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Harpsfield's Dialogi sex was printed under the name of Alan Cope, a friend of Harpsfield's and a fellow Catholic cleric. (See the articles on Alan Cope and Nicholas Harpsfield in the ODNB). When he wrote this rebuttal in 1570, Foxe thought that Cope was the author of the Dialogi sex.

which had rather the Byshops Chauncelour and officers to be recounted among theeues and murderers, then Hunne to be numbered among the Martyrs 
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What Harpsfield actually said was that even if Hunne had been murdered (which Harpsfield did not believe) he still could not be considered a martyr 'unless we wish to regard those who have been slain in highways by thievesas martyrs also' [nisi volumus eos, qui publiciis viis a latronibus interimuntur, in Martyrum quoque albumreferre] (Dialogi sex, p. 847). Harpsfield was arguing that even if Hunne was murdered, he was not a martyr because he did not die for a religious cause.

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, I haue herein not much to say, because hym selfe sayth but litle: and if he had sayd lesse, onles hys ground were better, it had made as litle matter. But forsomuch as he saying not much, sēdeth vs to seke more, in More: so with lyke breuitie againe I may send him to William Tyndall, to shape him an aunswere. 
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At the end of his discussion of the Hunne affair, Harpsfield refers his readers to More's Dialogue Concerning Heresies for further details of the case (Dialogi sex, p. 849). William Tyndale, in a rejoinder to More, had briefly rebutted More's account of Hunne (William Tyndale, An Answere unto Sir Thomas Mores Dialoge, eds. Anne M. O'Donnell and Jared Wicks [Washington, DC, 2000], p. 168).

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Yet notwithstanding, least Cope in saying somethyng, should thinke Hunnes innocent cause to lacke some frendes, whiche will not, or dare not aduenture in defence of truth, somewhat I will aunswere in his behalfe.

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MarginaliaHunne mmurdered not by him selfe, but by others.And first touchyng this murder of Hunne not to bee his owne wilfull acte, but the deede of others: besides the demonstrations aboue premised to Syr Thomas More, now to M. Cope, if I had no other euidēces, but onely these two, I would require no more: That is, his cappe found so streyght standyng vpon his head, and the stoole so tottering vnder his feete. MarginaliaNot possible that Hunne so hanging should hange him selfe.For how is it, I wil not say, like, but how is it possible, for a man to hang hym self in a silken gyrdell double cast about a staple, in such shortnes, that neither the space of the knot could well cōpasse his head about, and yet hauing his cappe so streight set vpon hys head, as his was?

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Agayne howe is it possible, or can it be imagined, for him to hange hym selfe, clyming vp by a stoole, which had no stay for him to stand vpō, but stoode so tickle þt if he had touched þe same neuer so litle, it must nedes haue fallen?

But Cope beyng somethyng more prouident in this matter, semeth to excede not all together so farre as doth M. More. For he vnderstandyng the case to bee ambiguous and doubtfull, so leaueth it in suspense, MarginaliaCope denyeth Rich. Hunne to dye a Martyr.neither determinyng that Hunne did hange hym selfe, and yet not admittyng, that hee dyed a Martyr, no more then they whiche are quelled by theeues and murderers in hygh way sides. 

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Foxe is misrepresenting Harpsfield; the latter conceeded no ambiguity at all about Horesey's innocence pf murder and Hunne's having committed suicide (Dialogi sex, pp. 847-8). All Harpsfield said was that 'if it was true' [si verum sit] that Hunne was murdered, then nevertheless Hunne was still not a martyr.

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Well, be it so, as Cope doth argue, that they whiche dye by the handes of felons and murderers in theuishe wayes, be no Martyrs, yet notwithstandyng this his owne similitude comparyng the Byshops Chaūcelour & officers to theeues and murderers, doth graunt at least that Hunne dyed a true man, althoughe no Martyr. MarginaliaThe cause, not the payne maketh a Martyr.Now if the cause be it, and not the paine, that maketh a Martyr, in ponderyng þe cause why Hunne was slayne, we shall finde it not altogether lyke to the cause of them, which perish by theeues and robbers. For such commonly because of their goodes, and for some worldly gayn to to be sought by their death, are made away, & beyng true mē may perauenture haue the reward, although not the name of Martyrs: Where as this mans death beyng wrought neither for money, nor any such temporall lucre to redound to hys oppressors, as it hath an other cause, so may it haue an other name, & deserue to be called by the name of Martyrdome. MarginaliaThe cause of Abels death and of Hunnes compared.Like as Abell being slayne by wicked Cain, albeit he had no opinion of religiō articulate agaynst him, but of spite onely and of malice was made away, yet notwithstādyng is iustly nūbred among þe Martyrs: so what let to þe contrary, but that Hunne also with hym may be rekened in the same societie, seing the cause wherfore they both did suffer, procedeth together out of one fountaine? And what moreouer if a man should call Naboth (who for holdyng hys ryght inheritaunce was slayne) 
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See 1 Kings 21: 1-16.

a Martyr, what great iniurie should he do either to the name, or cause of the person, worthy to be carped? Agaynst Tho. Becket ye knowe M. Cope no speciall Article of faith was laid, wherfore he died. And why then do you bestow vpon hym so deuoutly þe title of a Martyr, for withholdyng that from the kyng, whiche by the lawe of God, & of þe realme dyd belong vnto hym: & can not suffer Hunne to be titled for a Martyr, dyeng in hys own right by the handes of spirituall theeues and homicides, as you your self do terme thē? MarginaliaCope. Dial. 6. pag 847.But what do I strayne my trauail any further, to proue Hunne a Martyr, when as Copes owne confession doth importe no lesse, though I sayd no-

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