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1046 [1045]

K. Henry. 8. The Queenes Oration. The kinges diuorce in controuersie.

And as touchyng the Queene, if it be adiudged by the law of God that she is my lawfull wife, there was neuer thyng more pleasaunt nor more acceptable to me in my life, both for the discharge and clearyng of my conscience, and also for the good qualities and cōditions the which I know to be in her. For I assure you all, that beside her noble parētage of the which she is discended (as you well know) she is a woman of most gentlenes, of most humilitie and buxūnes yea and of all good qualities apperteinyng to nobilitie, she is without comparison, as I this xx. yeares, almost haue had the true experiment: so that if I were to mary agayne, if the mariage might be good, I would surely chose her aboue all other women. But if it be determined by iudgemēt that our Mariage was agaynst Gods law and clerely voyde, then I shall not onely sorow the departyng from so good a Lady and louyng companion, but much more lament and bewaile my infortunate chaunce that I haue so long lyued in adultery to Gods great displeasure, and haue no true heyre of my body to inherite this Realme. These be the sores that vexe my mynde, these be the panges that trouble my conscience, and for these greues I seeke a remedy. Therefore I require of you all, as our trust & confidence is in you, to declare to our subiectes our mynde and entēt, accordyng to our true meanyng, and desire them to pray with vs that the very truth may be knowen for the discharge of our cōscience and sauyng of our soule, and for the declaration hereof I haue assembled you together, and now you may depart.

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MarginaliaThe Legates talke wyth the Queene.
Ex Edw. Hallo.
Shortly after this Oration of the kyng, wherewith he styrred the hartes of a number, then the two Legates, being requested of the kyng for discharge of his consciēce, to iudge and determine vpon the cause, went to the Queene 

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Foxe's analysis of the reception of the oration, and the events that followed it was substantially changed in between the 1563 and the 1570 and later editions. In 1563, Foxe placed the emphasis on the Queen's reaction. As Foxe says in 1563, 'herepon word was sent not longer after to the Quene, by the cardinal, & certen other messengers'. In reality, delegations of the great and the good were sent to Queen Catherine a number of times over the course of the marriage trial, with the objective of ending her obstructionism. The latest delegation (for which, see L&P, iv:iii, no.739), perhaps that one referred to here, consisted of Thomas Howard (Duke of Norfolk), Edward Lee and Richard Sampson, Longland and Stokesley, and they addressed theology, canon law and civil political issues. The cardinal referred to here is Cardinal Lorenzo (var: 'Lawrence') Campeggio (who was also for a time Cardinal Protector of England and bishop of Salisbury). The legatine trial at Blackfriars (31 May - 23 July 1529) over which Campeggio presided with Wolsey, was actually his second legatine appearance in England, having been sent in 1518 as Leo X's nuncio (to secure men and funding for a projected crusade). Campeggio was deprived of Salisbury via act of parliament (11 March 1535) (see Edward V Cardinal, Cardinal Lorenzo Campeggio, Legate to the Courts of Henry VIII and Charles V (Boston, 1935)].

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liyng then in the place of Bridwell, and declared to her, how they were deputed Iudges indifferent betwene the Kyng and her, to heare and determine, whether the Mariage betwene them stode with Gods law, or not. When she vnderstode the cause of their commyng, beyng thereat some thyng astonyed at the first, after a litle pausing with her selfe, thus she began, aunsweryng for her selfe. 
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In the 1563 edition, Foxe replicated in extenso the speech supposedly given in reply by Queen Catherine, which had appeared in Edward Hall's chronicle, The Union of the Two Noble and Illustre Families of Lancastre & York (London, 1547), fols.180B-81A. There is some question over whether she actually made it at all. Catherine claims that she was unaware of the king's doubts; either she had been kept in the dark about young Henry's protest or his doubts and confessions of 1518, or her Spanish servants had not been paying attention. She makes the valid point that some theologians who were now raising objections to the marriage had accepted it at the time. One such was William Warham; another was Richard Fox, the aged bishop of Winchester. Former servants and courtiers had been trotted out at the tribunals to speak on events of twenty years' earlier and pick over the bones of ill or half-remembered statements. She refers tellingly to the dispensation of Julius II (dated 26 December 1503). She reserved her strongest statements, however, for Cardinal Wolsey, convinced that he was behind the divorce issue. In 1515 Leo X had created Wolsey a cardinal and he hoped to negotiate this, and English diplomatic ties with the empire after 1519, into his own election as pope. Charles V, however, supported his tutor (Adrian Dedel or Adrian Florenszoon Boeyens) as Pope Adrian VI and later, Giulio di Giuliano de'Medici (as Clement VII), for which Wolsey never forgave him. Later, in the aftermath of the imperial troops sacking of Rome (6 May 1527), Wolsey had conceived a scheme by which he would be appointed (by the French cardinals) as vice-pope for the duration of the pope's captivity. Charles V once again foiled his efforts by allowing Clement to escape captivity. Catherine was convinced that Wolsey was pursuing his grudge against her (as the aunt of the emperor he could not touch), which may indeed have been a fair assessment of Wolsey's ways of behaving.

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MarginaliaQueene Katherines aunswere to the Cardinalles. Alas my Lordes (sayd she) is it now a question whether I be the Kynges lawfull wife or no, when I haue bene maryed to hym almost xx. yeares, and in the meane season neuer question was made before? Diuers Prelates yet beyng alyue and Lordes also and priuy counsailors with the kyng at that tyme, then adiuged our Mariage lawfull and honest, and now to say it is detestable and abhominable, I thinke it great maruell: and in especiall when I consider what a wise Prince the Kyngs father was, and also the loue and naturall affection, that Kyng Ferdinādo my father bare vnto me. I thinke in my selfe that neither of our fathers were so vncircumspect, so vnwise, and of so small imagination, but they foresaw what might folow of our Mariage, and in especiall the Kyng my father sent to the Court of Rome, and there after lōg sute, with great coste and charge, obteined a licence and dispensation, that I beyng the one brothers wife and peraduenture carnally knowen, might without scrupule of conscience, mary with the other brother lawfully, which licence vnder lead I haue yet to shew: which thynges make me to say, and surely beleue, that our Mariage was both lawfull, good and godly. MarginaliaThe Cardinall cause of this diuorce, and why? But of this trouble I onely may thanke you my Lord Cardinall of Yorke. For, because I haue wōdered at your high pride & vaynglory, & abhorred your voluptuous life & abhominable lechery, & litle regarded your presumptuous power and tyranny: therfore of malice you haue kindled this fire, and set this matter abroche, & in especial for the great malice that you beare to my nephew the Emperour, whom I perfectly know you hate worse then a Scorpion, because he would not satisfie your ambition, and make you Pope by force, and therefore you haue sayd more then once, that you would trouble him and his frendes: and you haue kept him true promise, for of all his warres and vexations, he onely may thanke you. And as for me his poore Aunte and kinswoman, what trouble you haue put me too by this new found doubt, God knoweth, to whom I commit my cause accordyng to the truth. The Cardinall of Yorke excused himselfe saying, that he was not the begynner nor the mouer of the doubt, and that it was sore agaynst his will that euer the Mariage should come in question, but he sayd that by his superiour the Byshop of Rome, he was deputed as a Iudge to heare the cause, which he sware on his profession to heare indifferētly. But whatsoeuer was sayd, she beleued him not, and so the Legates tooke their leaue of her and departed. These wordes were spoken in French, and written by Cardinall Campeius Secretary 

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According to Gairdner's research, the secretary's name was Florian - for which, see James Gairdner, 'New Lights on the Divorce of Henry VIII', in The English Historical Review, 12 (January, 1897), pp.1-16.

, which was present, and afterward by Edward Hall translated into English.

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MarginaliaThe vayne pompe of the Romishe Legates.  

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Foxe's analysis of events after July1529 is congested and somewhat changed between the 1563 and 1570 editions. In 1563, Foxe mentions that Catherine appealed the projected decision of the legatine court to the pope on 16 June 1529 ('and her appeale made to the Pope'). Again, in the 1563 edition, he briefly alludes to the legatine trial at Blackfriars, which sat between 31 May and 23 July 1529 (about fourteen sessions) under the dual-authorities of cardinals Wolsey and Campeggio ('Fyrst the pope sendeth his two legates, Wolsey and Campeius, to here and decise the case…') noting the involvement of the king's proctor (chief legal advisor) John Bell (later bishop of Worcester), sometimes acting with Richard Sampson (later bishop of Chichester). The queen's proctor was John Clerk (bishop of Bath and Wells). He also refers to the preliminary meeting of 28 May 1529, at which the king and queen were to, officially, learn the reasons they were being summoned to appear before an ecclesiastical court. The other 'counsailors…learned men' assisting the queen mentioned by Foxe were William Warham, Nicholas West, John Fisher and Henry Standish. The queen had other supporters, including her chaplain Thomas Abel, Richard Featherstone, Peter Ligham, Edward Powell, Richard Gwent, her almoner Robert Shorton, her Spanish confessor George de Athequa (bishop of Llandaff) and John Talcarne, not all of whom were entirely to be trusted. Much of the actual chronology is skipped over. The court met in fourteen sessions - 31 May, 18, 21, 22, 25, and 28 June, 5, 9, 12, 14, 16, 19, 21, and 23 July. Foxe makes a reference to testimony on behalf of Prince Arthur (given on 19 July) meant to prove consummation of his marriage. This is rumour and hearsay evidence, of course. For example, when gentlemen of the prince's household joked with him over his need for a drink, Arthur reportedly replied: 'Marry, if thou haddest been as often in Spain this night as I have been, I think verily thou wouldest have been much drier.' (For a discussion of these reports, see Henry A Kelly, The Matrimonial Trials of Henry VIII [Stanford, 1976], pp.122ff) There is also reference made here to the Spanish brief (which had been secured for the dying Isabella on 26 December 1503 (and sent to Spain in autumn 1504) - common knowledge in England at the time [see, L&P, i, p.243] - although this fact seems to be often denied or conveniently forgotten by 1529.

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In the next yeare ensuing, an. 1530. at the blacke Friers of London was prepared a solemne place for the two Legates, who commyng with their crosses, pillers, axes, and all other Romishe ceremonies accordyngly, were set in two chayres couered with cloth of gold, and cushiōs of the same. When all thyngs were ready, MarginaliaThe king & Queene ascited before the Legates. then the Kyng & the Queene were ascited by Doct. Sampson, to appeare before the sayd Legates the 28. day of May: where (the Commissiō of the Cardinals first beyng read, wherein it was appointed by the Court of Rome, that they should be the hearers and iudges in the cause betwene them both) the Kyng was called by name, who appeared by two Proctors. Thē the Queene was called, who beyng accompanyed with Marginalia* These 4. byshops were Warham of Canterbury, West of Ely, Fysher of Rochester, Stādishe of S. Assaph. iiij. Byshops, and other of her Coūsaile, and a great company of Ladyes, came personally her selfe before the Legates: who there after her obeysaunce, with a sadde grauitie of countenaunce, hauyng not many wordes with them, MarginaliaThe Queene appealeth frō the Cardinall to the Pope. appealed frō the Legates, as iudges not competent, to the Court of Rome, and so departed. Notwithstandyng this appeale, the Cardinals sat weekely, and euery day argumentes on both sides were brought, but nothyng definitiuely was determined.

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As the tyme passed on, in the moneth of Iune, the kyng beyng desirous to see an ende, came to the Court, and the Queene also, where he standyng vnder his cloth of estate, vttered these or like wordes in effect as followeth.

MarginaliaThe kinges oration to the legates. MY Lordes Legates of the Sea Apostolicke, which be deputed iudges in this great and waighty matter, I most hartely besech you to ponder my mynde and entent, which onely is to haue a finall end for the discharge of my conscience: for euery good Christen man knoweth what payne and what vnquietnes he suffreth which hath his conscience greued. For I assure you on myne honour, that this matter hath so vexed my mynde, and troubled my spirites, that I cā scātely study any thyng, which should be profitable for my Realme and people, and for to haue a quietnes in body and soule, is my desire and request, and not for any grudge that I beare to her that I haue maryed, for I dare say that for her womāhode, wisedome, nobilitie, and gentlenes, neuer prince had such an other, and therfore if I would willingly chaūge, I were not wise. Wherfore my suite is to you my Lordes at this tyme, to haue a speedy end, accordyng to right, for the quietnes of my mynde and conscience onely, and for no other cause, as God knoweth.

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When the king had sayd, the Queene departed with out any thyng, saying. Then she was called, to know whether she would abide by her appeale, or aunswere there before the Legates. MarginaliaThe Queene abydeth by her appeale. Her Proctor aunswered that she would abyde by her appeale. That notwithstandyng, the Counsaillers on both sides euery day almost, mette and debated this matter substauncially, so that at the last the Diuines were all of opinion, that the Mariage was agaynst the law of God, if she were carnally knowen by the first brother, which thyng she clearely denyed. But to that was aūswered, that prince Arthur her husband confessed the acte done, by certaine wordes spoken, which being recorded in other Chronicles, I had rather should there be read, then by me here vttered. Furthermore, at the tyme of the death of Prince Arthur, she thought and iudged that she was with child, and for that cause, the kyng was deferred from the title and creation of the Prince of Wales, almost halfe a yeare, whiche thyng could not haue bene iudged, if she had not bene carnally knowen.

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Also she her selfe caused a Bull to be purchased, in the which were these wordes, Vel forsan cognitam, which is asmuch to say, as peraduenture carnally knowen, whiche wordes were not in the first Bull graunted by Iuly at her second Mariage, to the kyng, which second Bull with that clause was onely purchased, to dispence with the second Matrimony, although there were carnall copulation before, which Bull needed not to haue bene purchased, if there had bene no carnall copulation, for then the first Bull had bene sufficient.

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MarginaliaQueene Katherine carnally knowē by the kings brother. Moreouer, for the more cleare euidence of this matter 

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A number of depositions were taken from 'witnesses', reporting on the marriage of Arthur and Catherine [for which, see L&P, iv/iii, pp.2578-82].

that Prince Arthur had carnall knowledge of the sayd Lady Catherine his wife, it appeareth in a certaine booke of Recordes which we haue to shew touchyng this mariage, that the same tyme when Prince Arthur was first maryed with this Lady Catherine daughter to Ferdinando, certaine Ambassadours of Ferdinando his Counsaile were then sent hether into England for the sayd purpose to see and to testifie, concernyng the full consummation of the sayd matrimoniall coniunction. Which Counsaillers here resident, beyng solemnely sworne, not onely did affirme to both their parentes, that the Matrimony was consummate by that acte: but also dyd send ouer into Spayne to her father, such demonstrations of their mutuall coniunction, as here

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I
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