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1403 [1378]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Ridley late Byshop of London at Oxford.

MarginaliaAn. 1554. Aprill.hym, not onely Sacramētally with the hand of the body, but much more holesomely with the hand of the hart, and by inward drinking he is receiued: but by the Sacramentall signification he is holden of all men.

Seton. Where is then the miracle if he be onely present thorough his grace, and in mystery onely?

MarginaliaThe miracle in the Sacrament wherin it consisteth.Rid. Yes there is a miracle, good sir. Christ is not idle in his sacramēts. Is not the miracle great (trow you) whē bread, which is wont to susteine the body, becommeth fode to the soule? He that vnderstandeth not that miracle, he vnderstādeth not þe force of þt mystery. God graūt we may euery one of vs vnderstand his truth, and obey the same.

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Smith. Chrisostome calleth it a miracle, that Christ sitteth at the right hand of God in heauen, and at the same tyme is held in the handes of men: not that he is handled with the handes of mē onely in a mystery, and is with them through grace. Therfore while you deny that, you are altogether deceiued, and stray farre from the truth.

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Harps. The former place of Chrisostome is not to bee let slyppe. Let me, before I begin, aske this one question of you. Is it not a great matter that Elias left his cloake or mantell, and the gift of prophecie to his Scholer?

Rid. Yes surely, it is a great matter.

Harps. Did not Elias then leaue great grace?

Rid. He dyd so.

Harps. But Christ left a farre greater grace thē Helias: for he could not both leaue his cloke & take it with him: Christ doth both in his flesh.

Rid. I am well content to graunt, that Christ left much greater thynges to vs, then Helias to Eliseus, albeit he be sayd to haue left his double spirite with hym: MarginaliaHow Christ toke vp hys body, and left it with vs.for that the strength and grace of the body of Christ, which Christ ascendyng vp, here left with vs, is the onely saluation and lyfe of all them which shalbe saued: which lyfe Christ hath here left vnto vs, to be receiued by fayth through the hearyng of the word, and the right administration of the Sacraments. MarginaliaThe phrase of Chrysost. considered. This vertue and grace Chrisostome, after the phrase and maner of Iohn the Euangelist, calleth Christes flesh.

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Harps. But Christ performed a greater matter. He caryed vp and left behynd. You vnderstād not the comparison. MarginaliaComparison betwen Elias mātell, and Christes flesh.The comparison is in this, that Elias left his mantel, and caryed it not with him: Christ left his flesh behind hym, and caryed it with hym also.

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Rid. True it is, and I my selfe did affirme no lesse before. Now where you seeme to speake many thynges, in deede you bryng no new thyng at all. Let there be a comparison betwene grace and grace, MarginaliaElias tooke hys mantell, & left neyther mantell, nor sacrament of his mantell behinde him. Christ tooke hys fleshe and left a Sacrament of his flesh, which was more then Elias dyd: and yet the sayd Elias afterward cast downe his mantell.& then Christ gaue the farre greater grace, when he dyd inserte or graffe vs into his flesh.

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Harps. If you wil geue me leaue, I will aske you this question. If Chrisostome would haue ment so, that Christ left hys body in the Eucharist, what playner wordes thincke you, or more euident could he haue vsed then these?

Rid. These thynges be not of so great force as they beare a great shewe outwardly. He might also haue vsed grosser wordes if he had listed to haue vttered his mynde so grosly: for he was an eloquent man. Now he speaketh after the maner of other Doctors, which of mysticall matters speake mystically, and of Sacramentes Sacramentally.

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Harps. The comparison lyeth in this: That which was impossible to Elias, is possible to Christ.

Rid. I graūt. It was possible to Christ, which was to the other impossible. Helias left his cloke: Christ both left his fleshe and tooke it with hym.

Harps. Helias left behynde hym, & could not take with him: Christ both left behynd hym, and also tooke with him. Except you will say: the comparison here made to be nothyng.

MarginaliaHarpsfield aunswered.Rid. He tooke vp his flesh with him to heauen, and left here the communion of his flesh in earth.

West. You vnderstād in the first place his flesh for very true flesh: and in the second place for grace, and communion of his flesh: and why do you not vnderstand it in the second place also for his true flesh? I wil make it euident, MarginaliaQuam sit Stupida & crassa responsio tua.how blockish and grosse your aunswere is.

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Rid. These be tauntes and reproches, not beseemyng (as I thinke) the modesty of this Schole.

West. Elias left his cloake to his disciple: but the sonne of God, goyng vp to heauen left his flesh. But Elias certainly left his cloake behynd, and Christ likewise his flesh, and yet ascēdyng he caried the same with him to. By which wordes we make this reason.

MarginaliaArgument.Christ left his flesh to his Disciples, and yet for all that he tooke the same vp with hym.

Ergo, he is present here with vs.

MarginaliaD. Weston speaking to the audience in English.Here Doctour Weston crying to the people, sayd vnto them: Maister Doctour aunswereth it after this fashion:

He caried his flesh into heauen, and he left here the communion of hys fleshe behynd. Assuredly the aunswere is to vnlearned.

Ryd. I am glad you speake in English. Surely I wishe that all the whole world myght vnderstand your reasons & my aunsweres. Reliquit nobis carnem suā. i. He left vs his flesh. This you vnderstand of hys flesh, and I vnderstand the same of grace. He caryed hys flesh into heauen, and left hehynde the communion of hys flesh vnto vs.

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West. Ye Iudges, what thynke ye of thys aunswere.

MarginaliaBut where were these Iudges in K. Edwardes tymeIudges. It is ridiculous and a very fond aunswere. 

Commentary  *  Close

The remark of one of the judges to one of Ridley's answers was changed from 'It is an answere to be laughed at, and a very fond aunswere' (1563, p. 968) to 'It is ridiculous and a very fond aunsweare' (1570, p. 1615; 1576, p. 1378; 1583, p. 1449). Possibly this is a variant version of what the judge said; possibly Foxe reworded this to make the narrative more dignified.

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Ryd. Well, I take your wordes paciētly for Christes cause.

West. Westō here citeth a place: Spargimur sanguine Christi: We are sprinkled with the bloud of Christ.

Ryd. M. Doctor, it is the same bloud, but yet spiritually receiued. MarginaliaHow ye are sprinckled with Christs bloud.And in deede all the Prophetes were sprinkled with the same bloud, but yet spiritually I say, and by grace. And what soeuer they be that are not sprinckled wyth this bloud, they can not be partakers of þe euerlastyng saluatiō.

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West. * Marginalia* This he repeated in English to the people also. Here I bryng Bernard vnto you agayne. Euen frō the West vnto the East, frō the North vnto the South, there is one and the selfe same Christ in many and diuers places.

Ryd. The aunswere is soone made, that one Christ is here and in diuers places. MarginaliaAunswer to Bernard. For God accordyng to hys Maiesty, and accordyng to hys prouidence, as S. Austen sayth, is euery where wyth the godly, accordyng to hys indiuisible & vnspeakeable grace. Or els, if we should vnderstand Bernard accordyng to the corporall presence, how monstrous or huge, and gyantlike a body would you then make Christes body to be, MarginaliaThe Papistes make Christ to haue a monsterous body. which should reach euen from North to South, from West to East.

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West. Nay, nay, you make a monstrous aunswere and vnlearned.

MarginaliaHere they returne agayne to Latin.Ward. Before I come in with those reasons which I had purposed to bring against you, I am minded to come againe to M. Doctours argument by which you beyng brought into the bryers, seemed to doubt of Christes presence on the earth. To þe proufe of which matter I will bryng nothing els, then that which was agreed vpon in MarginaliaB. Ridley falsly charged to set forth the Catechisme.the Catechisme of the Sonode of London set out not long ago by you.

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Ryd, Syr I geue you to witte, before you go any farther, that I dyd set out no Catechisme.

West. Yes, you made me subscribe to it when you were a Byshop in your ruffe. MarginaliaD. Weston in King Edwardes daies subscribed.

Ryd. I compelled no man to subscribe.

Warde. Yes by roode, you are the very authour of that heresie.

Ryd. I put forth no Catechisme.

Cole. Dyd you neuer consent to the settyng out of those thynges, which you allowed?

Ryd. I graunt that I saw the booke. MarginaliaOf this Catechisme read before pag. 1357. But I deny that I wrote it. I perused it after it was made, and I noted many thynges for it. So I consented to the booke: I was not the author of it.

Iudges. * Marginalia* The Iudges geue an vntrue verdite: for D. Cranmer meaning by the Counsell, spake no worde of Ridley. The Catechisme is so set forth, as though the whole conuocation house had agreed to it. Cranmer sayd yesterday that you made it.

Ryd. I thinke surely that he would not say so.

Ward. The Catechisme hath thys clause: Si visibiliter & in terra. &c. i. If visibly and on the earth. &c.

Rid. I aunswere that those articles were set out, I both wittyng and consentyng to them. Myne owne hand wyll testifie the same, and M. Cranmer put hys hand to them likewise, & gaue them to other afterward. Now, as for þe place which you alledge out of it, that may easely be expounded, and without any inconuenience.

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Ward. Christ is the power and vertue of hys Father.

MarginaliaA possibili ad esse non valet consequentia.Ergo, he was not of so litle strength, that he coulde not bryng to passe whatsoeuer he would hymselfe.

Ryd. I graunt.

Ward. Christ was the wysedome of the father.

Ergo, that he spake, he spake wisely, and so as euery man might vnderstand: neyther was it hys mynde to speake one thyng in steede of an other.

Ryd. All thys I graunt.

MarginaliaArgument of the wisedōe and truth of Christ.Ward. Christ was likewyse the very truth: Ergo, he made and perfourmed in deede, that which he entended to make. And likely it is, that he doth neyther deceiue, nor coulde be deceiued, nor yet would go about to deceiue other.

West. Hilarius in Psalmum. 118. hath these wordes. MarginaliaHillar. in Psal. 118.Vera omnia sunt, & neq; ociosè, neque inutiliter constituta dei verba, sed extra omnem ambiguitatem superfluæ inanitatis, ignita, & ignita vehementer, ne quid illic esse quod non perfectum ac proprium sit, existimetur. That is: All gods wordes or sayinges are true, and neither idlely placed, nor vnprofitably, but fiery, and wonderfull 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe added the word 'wonderful' to Hilary's commentary on Psalm 118 (cf. 1563, p. 969 with 1570, p. 1616; 1576, p. 1378; 1583, p. 1449).

fiery without all doubtfulnes of superfluous vanitye, that there may bee nothyng thought to be there, which is not absolute and proper.

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Ward. He is the truth of the father: Ergo, he can neyther deceiue, nor yet be deceiued, especially, I meane, when he

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