Critical Apparatus for this Page
Commentary on the Text
Names and Places on this Page
Unavailable for this Edition
1406 [1381]

Q. Mary. Disputation of Doct. Ridley late Byshop of London at Oxford.

Marginalia1554. Aprill.if you meane the externall Sacrament, I say, that also is to be worshypped as a Sacrament. MarginaliaWe worship Christ in the Eucharist: but we worship not the Eucharist for Christ.

Glin. So was the fayth of the primatiue Church.

Rid. Would to God we would all follow the fayth of that Church.

Glin. Thinke you that Christ hath now his Church?

Rid. I do so.

Glin. But all the Church adoreth Christ, verely and really in the Sacrament.

Rid. You knowe your selfe that the East Churche would not acknowledge transubstantiation, as it appeareth in the MarginaliaThis Councell of Florence was but of late yeares in the tyme of the Councell of Basill.Councell of Florence.

Cole. That is false. For in the same they did acknowledge transubstantiation, although they would not entreat of that matter, for that they had not in their commission so to do.

Rid. Nay, they would determine nothyng of that matter, when the Article was propounded vnto them.

Cole. It was not because they did not acknowledge the same, but because they had no commission so to do.

Curtop. Reuerend sir, I will proue and declare, that the body of Christ is truly and really in the Eucharist: & where as þe holy fathers, both of þe West & East Church haue written, both many thynges and no lesse manifest of the same matter, yet I will bryng foorth onely MarginaliaChrysost. in Cap. 10. Cor. 1. Hom. 24.Chrisostome. The place is in cap. 10. Corinth. 1. Homel. 24.

[Back to Top]

* Marginalia* The Maior should be thus: Whatsoeuer did flow frō the side of Christ, is in the cup. &c. or els the argument being in the 2. figure, is affirmatiue and false. That which is in the cup, is the same that flowed from the side of Christ.

But true and pure bloud dyd flowe from the side of Christ:

Ergo, his true and pure bloud is in the cup.

Rid. It is his true bloud which is in the chalice (I graūt) and the same whiche sprang from the side of Christ. But how? It is bloud in deede, but not after þe same maner, after which maner it sprang from his side. For here is the bloud, but by the way of a Sacrament.

MarginaliaWherfore and how the bread is called the body and the cup the bloud.Agayne, I say, lyke as the bread of the Sacrament and of thankes geuyng is called the body of Christ geuen for vs: so the cuppe of the Lord is called the bloud whiche sprang from the side of Christ. But that Sacramentall bread is called the body, because it is the Sacrament of his body: euen so likewise the cuppe is called the bloude also, which flowed out of Christes side because it is the Sacrament of that bloud which flowed out of his side, instituted of the Lord hymselfe for our singuler commoditie, namely for our spirituall nourishment, lyke as Baptisme is ordeined in water to our spirituall regeneration.

[Back to Top]

Cur. The Sacrament of the bloud is not the bloud.

Rid. The Sacrament of the bloud, is the bloud, and that is attributed to the Sacrament, which is spoken of the thyng of the sacrament.

West. Here Weston repeateth Curtoppes argument in English.

* Marginalia* This argument concludeth not directly and being in the 2. figure affirmatiue, it is not formall.That whiche is in the chalice, is the same which flowed out of Christes syde.

But there came out very bloud:

Ergo, there is very bloud in the chalice.

Rid. The bloud of Christ is in the chalice in deede, but not in the reall presence, but by grace and in a Sacrament.

West. That is very wel. Thē we haue bloud in the chalice.

Rid. It is true, but by grace and in a Sacrament.

Here the people hissed at hym.

Rid. O my Maisters, I take this for no iudgemēt: I will stand to Gods iudgement.

Wat. Good sir, I haue determined to haue respect of the tyme, and to abstayne from al those thynges which may hynder the entraunce of our disceptation: and therfore first I aske this question: When Christ sayd in the MarginaliaIohn. 6.vj. Iohn: Qui māducat carnem meam. i. He that eateth my flesh. &c. doth he signifie in those wordes the eatyng of his true and naturall flesh, or els of the bread and symbole?

[Back to Top]

Rid. I vnderstand that place of the very fleshe of Christ to be eaten, but spiritually: MarginaliaSpirituall eating of the flesh of Christ. And farther I say, that the Sacrament also pertayneth vnto the spirituall manducation. For without the spirite to eate the Sacrament, is to eate it vnprofitably. For who so eateth not spiritually, he eateth his owne condemnation.

[Back to Top]

Wat. I aske them whether the Eucharist be a Sacramēt.

Rid. The Eucharist taken for a signe or symbole, is a Sacrament.

Wat. Is it instituted of God?

Rid. It is instituted of God.

Wat. Where?

Rid. In the Supper.

Wat. With what wordes is it made a Sacrament?

Rid. By the wordes and deedes whych Christ sayd and did, and commaunded vs to say and do the same.

Wat. It is a thyng commonly receiued of all, that the Sa-

cramentes of the new law geue grace to them that worthely receiue.

Rid. True it is that grace is geuen by the sacrament, but as by an instrument. MarginaliaThe Sacramentes geue no grace but are instruments. The inward vertue & Christ geue the grace through the sacrament.

Wat. What is a sacrament?

Rid. I remember there be many definitions of a sacramēt in Austine: but I wyll take that whych seemeth most fitte to this present purpose. MarginaliaSacrament defined.A sacrament is a visible signe of inuisible grace.

Wat. Ergo grace is geuen to the receiuers.

Rid. The societie or coniunction with Christ through the holy Ghost, is grace, and by the Sacrament we are made the members of the mysticall body of Christ, for that by the sacrament the part of the body is ingrafted in the head.

Wat. But there is a difference betwene the mysticall body, and naturall body.

Rid. There is (I graunt you) a difference, but the head of them both is one.

Wat. * Marginalia
* The Silogisme is thus to be formed:
The Sacrament of the nevv Testament hath a promise of grace annexed.
Bread and vvyne haue no promise of grace annexed:
Ergo, bread and vvine is no Sacrament of the nevv Testamēt.
The Eucharist is a Sacrament of the new testamēt:

Ergo, it hath a promise of grace:

But no promise of grace is made to bread and wyne:

Ergo, bread and wyne be not the sacramentes of the new Testament.

Rid. I graunt, that grace pertaineth to the Eucharist, accordyng to thys saying: The bread which we breake is it not the communication or partaking of the body of Christ? And lyke as he þt eateth, and he þt drinketh vnworthely the sacrament of the body and bloud of the Lord, eateth & drinketh his own damnation: euen so he that eateth and drinketh worthely, eateth lyfe and drinketh lyfe. I graunt also that there is no * Marginalia* No promise made to bread & wyne, as they be common bread and commō wyne, but as they be sanctified and made Sacramentes of the Lordes body and bloud, they are not now called bread nor wyne, and haue a promise annexed to them, or rather (to say the truth) annexed to the receauers of thē. promise made to bread and wyne. But in as much as they are sanctified and made the sacraments of the body and bloud of the lord, they haue a promise of grace annexed vnto them, namely of spirituall partakyng of the body of Christ, to be communicated and giuen, not to the bread and wyne, but to them which worthely do receiue the Sacrament.

[Back to Top]

Wat. If the substaunce of bread and wyne do remayne, thē the societie betwixt Christ and vs, is promised to them that take bread and wyne.

But that society is not promised to bread and wine, but to the receiuers of hys flesh and bloud, Iohn. 6. Qui manducat, &c.

Ergo, the substance of bread and wyne remaineth not.

Rid. The promise vndoubtedly is made to the fleshe & the bloud, but the same be receiued in þe sacramēt through faith.

Wat. MarginaliaArgument.Euery Sacrament hath a promyse of grace adnexed vnto it.

But bread and wine haue not a promise of grace adnexed vnto it:

Ergo, the bread and wyne are not sacraments.

Rid. MarginaliaSacramentes how they haue a promise of grace annexed, not absolutely but instrumentally.True it is, euery sacrament hath grace adnexed vnto it instrumentally. But there is diuers vnderstanding of thys word [Habet] hath. For the sacrament hath not grace included in it: but to those that receiue it well, it is turned to grace. MarginaliaGrace not included in Sacramentes: but the receauing of thē turneth to grace in them that duly come vnto them. After that maner the water in Baptisme hath grace promised, and by that grace the holy spirite is geuen, not that grace is included in water, but that grace commeth by water:

[Back to Top]

Wat. Thys promyse is made to the flesh & bloud of Christ, and not to bread and wyne.

Ergo, the sacrament is not bread and wyne, but the body and bloud of Christ.

Rid. There is no promise made to hym that taketh commō bread and common wine: but to him that receiueth the sanctified bread, and bread of the Communion, there is a large promyse of grace made: MarginaliaPromise made not to the simboles, but to the thing of the Sacrament.neyther is the promise geuen to the symboles, but to the thyng of the sacrament. But the thing of the sacrament is the flesh and bloud.

[Back to Top]

Wat. Euery sacrament of the new testament geueth grace promised of God, to those that worthely receiue it.

Rid. MarginaliaSacramentes onely instrumēts of grace.This sacramēt hath a promise of grace, made to those that receiue it worthely, because grace is geuen by it, as by an instrument, not that Christ hath transfused grace into the bread and wyne.

Wat. But thys promise which is made, is not but to those that worthely receiue the flesh & bloud: not þe bread & wyne.

Rid. MarginaliaBread more largely taken in the Minor then in the conclusion.that proposition 

Commentary  *  Close

The word 'position' in Ridley's exchange with Watson in 1563, p. 974, is clearly a mistake (cf. Rerum, p. 691) which was corrected in 1570, p. 1619; 1576, p. 1381; 1583, p. 1452. This is another indication that the 1570 edition, in contrast to the other editions, was thoroughly proofread.

of yours hath a a diuers vnderstanding. There is no promise made to them that receyue cōmon bread, as it were: but to those that worthely receiue the sanctified bread, there is a promise of grace made, like as Origen doth testifie.

[Back to Top]

Wat. Where is that promise made?

Rid. The bread which he brake, is it not a communication of the body of Christ: [And] Marginalia1. Cor. 11.we being many are one bread, one body of Christ?

Wat. What doth he meane by bread in that place?

Ryd.
LLLl.iij.
Go To Modern Page No:  
Click on this link to switch between the Modern pagination for this edition and Foxe's original pagination when searching for a page number. Note that the pagination displayed in the transcription is the modern pagination with Foxe's original pagination in square brackets.
Find:
Type a keyword and then restrict it to a particular edition using the dropdown menu. You can search for single words or phrases. When searching for single words, the search engine automatically imposes a wildcard at the end of the keyword in order to retrieve both whole and part words. For example, a search for "queen" will retrieve "queen", "queene" and "queenes" etc.
in:  
Humanities Research Institute  *  HRI Online  *  Feedback
Version 2.0 © 2011 The University of Sheffield