Critical Apparatus for this Page
View an Image of this PageCommentary on the Text
Names and Places on this Page
None
1026 [1002]

K. Hen. 8. A Dialogue betweene Bilney and Fryer Brusierd. The Pope proued Antichrist.
¶ A Dialogue betwene Fryer Iohn Brusierd 
Commentary  *  Close

Details concerning the identity and career of Friar John Brusierd continue to be sparse. Craig W. D'Alton, 'The Suppression of Lutheran Heretics in England, 1526-1529', Journal of Ecclesiastical History, vol. 54 (2003), pp. 228-53.

, and Mayster Thomas Bilney, in Ipswich, concerning worshipping of Images.
Brusierd.

MarginaliaA Dialogue betweene Bilney and Frier Brusierd.ALthough you haue blasphemed most pernitiously the immaculate flocke of Christ, with certayne blasphemyes of yours: yet being moued partly with your gentle petitions, partly pitying your case & towardly dispositiō, I am come hither to talke with you secretly, before the rumor be disclosed, vpon the consideration of the threefolde errors which I see in you.

[Back to Top]

First for that, when you began to shoot the dart of your pestiferous error more vehemently thē you ought, agaynst the brest of the ignorant multitude, you seeme to poure vpō the ground, the precious bloud of Christ, as with a certein vehement violence out of the miserable vessel of your hart. Wheras you sayd, MarginaliaA great blasphemy among the Fryers to set vp Christ onely to be our mediatour.that none of the sayntes do make intercession for vs, nor obteine for vs any thing, you haue perilously blasphemed the efficacy of the whole church, cōsecrated with the precious bloud of Christ. Which thing you are not able to deny, especially seing þe same so incessantly doth knocke at the gates of heauē, through the continuall intercession of the sayntes, according as in the seuenfolde Letany manifestly appeareth to be seene.

[Back to Top]

Bilney. I maruell at you, and doubtles cannot maruell enough, but that the strong & vayn custome of superstitious mē, thinking themselues not to be heard but in much babling, doth put an end of my admiration. For our heauenly father knoweth what we haue need of before we aske. Also it is written: MarginaliaOne mediator, and no moe.There is one mediatour of God and men, the man Christ Iesus. If then there be but one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Iesus, where is our bleessed Ladye? where is then S. Peter and other Saintes?

[Back to Top]

Brusierd. I suppose that no man is ignorāt, but that the diuines of þt primitiue church haue all affirmed to be one mediator betweene God and man. Neither could any at that time prayse or pray to the saynts, whē as yet they liuing in the calamities of this body, and wrastling with the cōtrary windes of this world, were not yet come to the port of rest wherunto they were trauelling. Paul (I graūt) did rightly affirme to be but one mediator of God & men, what time as yet there was no saint canonised or put into þe kalender. MarginaliaThe Popes Calender maketh moe Mediators now, then were in the Primitiue Church. But now seing the church doth know, & doth certeinly beleue, through þe vndoubted reuelations of God, that þe blessed virgin & other saints are placed in the bosome of Abraham, she therfore like a good mother hath taught, and that most diligently, vs as her children, to prayse the omnipotent Iesus in his saynts: & also to offer vp by the same sayntes, our petitiōs vnto God. Therof it is that the Psal. sayth: Prayse ye the Lord in his sayntes. MarginaliaNote this argument, we must prayse God in his Saintes, Ergo, wee must pray to Saintes.Rightly also do we say and affirme, that sayntes may pray for vs. One man may pray for another. Ergo, much more may saynts that do enioy the fruitiō of his high maiesty. For so it is writtē: MarginaliaRom. 1.God is my wit nes whome I serue in my spirite, in the Gospell of his sonne, that without ceasing I remēber you in my praier alwaies for you. &c.

[Back to Top]

Bilney. I marnell doubtlesse, that you a man learned are not yet deliuered out of the confuse dungeon of heresie, through the helpe of the holy Gospell: especially seing þt in the same Gospell it is written: MarginaliaIohn 16.Verely, verely, I say vnto you, what so euer you aske the father in my name, MarginaliaIn nomine meo. he will geue it vnto you. He sayth not, whatsoeuer ye aske the Father in the name of S. Peter, S. Paule, or other sayntes, but in my name. Let vs, aske therfore helpe in the name of him, which is able to obteine for vs of his father, whatsoeuer we aske, least peraduenture hereafter in the end of the world, at the strayt iudgemēt we shall heare: Hitherto in my name ye haue asked nothing.

[Back to Top]

Brusierd. Where ye maruell (with what minde, I can not tel) that I being a learned man (as you say) am not deliuered yet frō the cōfuse dungeon of heresy, through the helpe of the gospel: much more do you that are far better learned then I, cause me to maruel at your foolish admiratiō. Neither can I chuse but laugh at you, as one being rapt to the third heauen of such high misteries, and yet see not those thinges which be done here in the lower partes of terrene Philosophy, for what a ridiculous thing is it, for a man to looke so long vpon the Sunne, that he can see nothing els but the Sunne, nor canne not tell whyther to turne him? MarginaliaAgumentum ad autoritate destructiuè.Moreouer, what student is there in all Cambridge, be he neuer so young, that knoweth not, that the argumēt of authority brought out nagatiuely, hath no force?

[Back to Top]

Bilney. So as the Phariseis tooke Christ, you take my wordes much otherwise then I meant.

Brusierd. Your words which wander farre from the scope of Scripture, I doe not like. What is in your meaning, and lyeth inwardly in your minde, I can not tell.

Bilney. Such as inuocate the helpe either of Christ, or of any other Saynt, for any corporal infirmity, to be deliuered frō the same, MarginaliaPraying for taking away temporall infirmities. may be well resēbled to delicate paciēts, who being vnder the hand of phisitiōs, & hauing medicines ministred agaynst theyr diseases: not abiding the payn therof, rap all a sūder: wherfore I say, no man ought to implore þe helpe of God or of any saynt, * Marginalia* He meaneth absolutely, with out condition. for corporall infirmity.

[Back to Top]

Brusierd. O moste pernicious & perilous heresy of all that euer I heard. Thus you fleeing the smoke, fal into the fire, & auoiding the daunger of Scylla, you run vpō Caribdis. MarginaliaScylla and Charibdis, be two dāgerous rocks in the sea. O hart of man wrapped in a palpable darcknes. I wish M. Bilney, that you would but once search & fet out the fyrste origine of these rogatiō dayes. For so we read in þe churche story, MarginaliaBy thys church storie, he meaneth by like, Legenda aurea, other wise called the legende of lyes. that they were first ordeyned by pope Gregory, with fasting, prayers, & holy processions agaynst the pestilēce, by the infection of the ayre thē raigning among the people. At what time þe people thē going in þe procession, a certeine Image like to our blessed Lady, painted wt the handes of S. Luke þe Euāgelist, did go before thē, about þe which image, in þe honor of the virgin, angels did sing this Antheme: Regina cœli lætare. &c. O Queene of heauen be glad. To the which Antheme the pope also adioyned this: Ora pro nobis dominū. &c. MarginaliaThe Popes Letanie at Rome. Pray to the Lord for vs. Wherefore seeing the angels did worship the image of the glorious virgin Mary, in the honor of her: & seing moreouer þe holy father pope Gregory, with al þe clergy, did pray for corporall infirmity, it appeareth manifestly that we ought to worship þe saints, & also to geue honor in a maner to theyr Images: further also to pray to almighty God & al saints, for corporal infirmity, that we may be deliuered from the same, so that they may say the like for vs, which is said in the Gospell: Sende them away, because they cry after vs. MarginaliaScripture well applyed. And although there be infinite places inexpugnable to be alleaged out of the holy scripture, wherwith we might easily resist this your error: yet standing herewith content, as sufficient at this present, we wil procede now to your secōd pestiferous error, wherin you, like an ingrate child go about to teare out þe bowels of your mother. For in þt you say & affirme blasphemously the bish. of Rome to be the very Antichrist, MarginaliaWhether the Pope be Antichrist. & that his pryuileges haue no force against the gates of hel: in so saying, what do you but like a most vnkinde and vnnatural child, spoile your louing mother of all her treasures, & woūd her being spoiled, & being woūded, plucke out her bowels most miserably vpō þe earth. But forsomuch as there is nothing so absurd or so heretical but shalbe receiued of some itching eares: I would therfore now heare you declare, how he sitteth in the tēple of god, as god, being exalted & worshipped aboue all þt is named god, or how that he sheweth himselfe as Lord in power and signes, and wonders deceitfull.

[Back to Top]

Bilney. Although incredulitye doth not suffer you, notwithstanding your learning, to vnderstand these thinges, yet I will goe about something to helpe your incredulity herein, through the helpe of the Lorde, beseeching you, þt setting all superstition aparte, you will vnderstande those thinges that are aboue, Do ye know the table of the tenne Commanndementes?

[Back to Top]

Brusierd. According as the Catholique Doctours do expound them, I know them meanely. But how you do expound them, I cannot tell.

Bilney. And doe you knowe also the constitutions of men, which are deuised onely by the dreames of men, whereunto men are so straightly bound, that vnder paine of death they are compelled to obserue them?

Brusierd. I knowe certaine sanctions of the holy fathers, but such as you speake of to be deuised by mens dreames, I knowe none.

Bilney. Now then let vs set and compare these two together, & so shall you easily vnderstand the Bishop of Rome whom they call the Pope, Marginalia2. Thessal. 2.to sitte in the temple of God, as God, and to be extolled aboue all that is named God. It is written, The temple of the Lorde is holy, which is you. Marginalia1. Cor. 3. Therefore the conscience of man is the temple of the holy Ghost: in whiche temple I will proue the Pope to sit as God, and to be exalted aboue all that is called God. MarginaliaThe place of S. Paule expounded concernyng Antichrist, sitting in the temple of God, &c.For who so contemneth the decaloge or the table of the commaundementes of God, there is but a small punyshment for him, neither is that punishment to death: but contrarywise he that shall contemne or violate the constitutions which you call the sanctions of men, is coūted by all mens iudgement gilty of death. What is this, but þe high bishop of Rome to sit & to raigne in the temple of God, that is, in mans conscience, as God?

[Back to Top]

Brusierd. Although this exposition seemeth vnworthy for christē eares, yet I would heare you further how he sheweth himselfe in signes and wonders deceitfull.

Bilney. These wonders (whiche they call miracles) be wrought daily in the Church, MarginaliaSignes and myracles wrought b illusion.not by the power of God, as

many
Go To Modern Page No:  
Click on this link to switch between the Modern pagination for this edition and Foxe's original pagination when searching for a page number. Note that the pagination displayed in the transcription is the modern pagination with Foxe's original pagination in square brackets.
Find:
Type a keyword and then restrict it to a particular edition using the dropdown menu. You can search for single words or phrases. When searching for single words, the search engine automatically imposes a wildcard at the end of the keyword in order to retrieve both whole and part words. For example, a search for "queen" will retrieve "queen", "queene" and "queenes" etc.
in:  
Humanities Research Institute  *  HRI Online  *  Feedback
Version 2.0 © 2011 The University of Sheffield