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1458 [1434]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury in Oxford.

MarginaliaAnno 1554. Aprill.Like as Mothers nurse their children with mylke: so Christ nourished vs with his body.

But mothers do not nourish their Infants spiritually with their mylke:

Therefore Christ doth not nourish those that bee hys, spiritually with hys bloud. MarginaliaAn other false argumēt wherein the 3. figure the Minor is a negatiue.

Cran. MarginaliaAunswere.He gaue vs the wyne for his bloud.

West. MarginaliaArgument.If he gaue the wyne for his bloud (as you say) then he gaue lesse then mothers do geue.

But Chrysostome affirmeth that hee gaue more then mothers geue.

Therfore he gaue not the wyne for his bloud.

Cran. MarginaliaChrist nourisheth vs both with bread and with his body: with bread our bodyes, with his body our soules.You peruert myne aunswer. He gaue wyne, yet the bloud is considered therin. As for example. Whē he geueth Baptisme, we consider not the water, but the holy Ghost, and remission of sinnes. We receiue with the mouth þe Sacrament: but the thyng and the matter of the Sacrament we receiue by fayth.

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West. When Christ sayd, eate ye, whether ment hee by the mouth or by fayth?

Cran. He ment that we should receiue the body by fayth, the bread by mouth.

West. Nay, the body by the mouth.

MarginaliaA grosse saying.

Cran. That I deny.

West. MarginaliaChrysost. alleaged by D. Weston.I prooue it out of Chrysostome, writyng vpon the fifty Psalme.

MarginaliaChrysost. in Psal. 50. Item, Hom. 83. in 26. cap. Mat.Erubescit fieri nutrix, quæ facta est mater. Christus autem nō ita ipse nutritor est noster: ideo pro cibo carne propria nos pascit, & pro potu suum sanguinem nobis propinauit. Item in 26. Mathæi. Homil. 83. Non enim sufficit ipsi hominem fieri, flagellis interim cædi: sed nos secum in vnam vt ita dicam, massam reducit, neque id fide solum, sed re ipsa nos corpus suum efficit? 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, 452, fn 4

["Sir H. Saville doubted the genuineness of this homily, and F. Ducæus and Montfaucon reject it altogether, as unworthy of Chrysostome." Jenkyns. - ED.]

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That is to say.

She that is a mother, shameth sometyme to play the Nurse. But Christ our Nurse doth not so play with vs. Therefore in stead of meate he feedeth vs with his owne flesh, and in stead of drinke he feedeth vs with hys owne bloud. Likewise, vpon the 26. chap. of Mathew, the 83. homily, he saith: For it shal not be enough for him to become man, and in the meane whyle to be whipped: but he doth bring vs into one masse or lumpe with himself (as I may so call it) and maketh vs his body not by faith alone, but also in very deed.

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Cran. I graunt: We make one nature with Christ. But that to be done with mouth we deny.

West. MarginaliaChrysost. alleaged by D. Weston. Homil. 29. in Epist. 2. Cor. cap. 13.Chrysost. 2. Cor. cap. 13. Homil. 29. hath these wordes: Non vulgarem honorem consequutum est os nostrum, accipiens corpus dominicū. i. No little honor is geuen to our mouth, receiuing the body of the Lord.

Cran. This I say, that Christ entreth into vs both by our eares & by our eyes. With our mouth we receiue the body of Christ, and teare it with our teeth, that is to say, the Sacrament of the body of Christ. Wherfore I say and affirme that the vertue of the sacrament is much: MarginaliaThe words of Chrysost. expounded.& therfore Chrysostom many tymes speaketh of sacramēts no otherwyse, then of Christ hymselfe, as I could prooue, if I might haue liberty to speake, by many places of Chrysostom, where he speaketh of the sacrament of the body of Christ.

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With the which worde of the sacrament of the body, &c. 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe added the phrase 'with the which word of the sacrament of the body' to the 1570 edition (1570, p. 1598; 1576, p. 1363; 1583, p. 1434). Probably Foxe did this for explanatory purposes in order to show exactly at what Henry Cole was taking offence.

MarginaliaDoct. Cole denieth the Sacrament to be a Sacrament of the body of Christ, but onely a Sacrament of the congregation, that is, of the misticall body of Christ.D. Cole beyng highly offended, denied it to be the Sacrament of the body of Christ, saue onely of the mysticall body which is the Church.

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Cran. And why should we doubt to call it the Sacrament of the body of Christ offered vpon the Crosse, seeyng both Christ and the auncient Fathers do so call it?

Cole. How gather you that of Chrysostome?

Cran. Chrysostome declareth hymselfe. Lib. 3. De Sacerdotio, cap. 3. O miraculum, O Dei in nos beneuolentia, qui sursum sedet ad dextram patris, sacrificij tamen tempore hominum manibus continetur, traditur; lambere cupientibus eum. Fit autem id nullis præstigijs, sed apertis & circumspiciētibus circumstantium omnium oculis. 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, 453, fn 2

{Cattley/Pratt cites the reference, but substitutes 'cap. 4' for 'cap. 3' and adds: ["The original of this passage supports Cranmer's reasoning much better than the version here given." Jenkyns, vol. iv. p. 30. The principal variation appears in the closing line, which we accordingly copy: "ποιοῦσι δὲ τοῦτο πἄντες διὰ τῶν ὀφθαλμῶν τῆς πίστεως." In Hughes's edition of this treatise (Cantabr. 1712), βλέπουσι takes the place of ποιούσι; he has a long note upon the passage (p. 291), but does not notice any various reading; neither does Montfaucon, vol. i. p. 468. Paris, 1834. - ED.]}

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MarginaliaChrysost. alleaged by D. Cranmer. Chrisost. lib. 3. de Sacerdote. Cap. 3.

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That is to say.

O myracle, O the good wil of God towards vs, which sitteth aboue at the right hand of the father, and is holdē in mens hands at the sacrifice tyme, & is geuen to feed vpon, to them that are desirous of him. And that is brought to passe by no subtletie or craft, but with the open and beholding eyes of all the standers by.

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Thus ye heare Christ is seene here in earth euery day, is touched, is torne with the teeth, þt our tong is red wyth his bloud: which no man hauing any iudgement will say or thinke to be spoken without trope or figure,

West. What miracle is it if it be not his body: & if he speake only of the sacrament, as though it were his body?

MarginaliaChrysostome alleaged by D. Weston.But harken what Chrysostome sayth: Homil. 34. Quod summo honore dignum est, id tibi in terra ostendo. Nam quemadmodum in regijs non parietes, non lectus aureus, sed regium corpus in throno sedens omnium præstantissimum est: ita quoque in cœlis regium corpus, quod nunc in terra proponitur. Non Angelos, non Archangelos, non cœlos cœlorum, sed ipsum horum omnium Dominum tibi ostendo. Animaduertis quonam pacto quod omnium maximum est atque præcipuum in terra, non conspicaris tantum sed tangis, neque solum tangis, sed comedis, atq̀ue eo accepto domum redis. Absterge igitur ab omni sorde animam tuam. MarginaliaChrysost. Hom. 24.

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That is to say.

I shew foorth that thing on the earth vnto thee, which is woorthy the greatest honor. For lyke as in the pallace of kyngs, neither the walles, nor the sumptuous bed, but the body of Kings sittyng vnder the cloth of estate, and royall seat of Maiestie, is of all things els the most excellent: so is in lyke maner, the kings body in heauen, which is now set before vs on earth. I shew thee neither Angels nor archangels, nor the heauen of heauens, but the very Lord & maister of all these things. Thou perceiuest after what sort thou doest not onely behold, but touchest, and not onely touchest, but eatest that which on the earth is the greatest and chiefest thyng of all other, and when thou hast receued the same, thou goest home: Wherefore cleanse thy soule from all vncleannesse.

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Vpon this, I conclude that the body of Christ is shewed vs vpon the earth.

Cran. MarginaliaHow the body of Christ is shewed vs vpon the earth.What? vpon the earth? no man seeth Christ vppon the earth? He is seene with the eyes of our mynde, wyth fayth and spirit.

West. I pray you what is it that seemeth worthy hyghest honour on the earth? It is the Sacrament or els the body of Christ.

Cran. Chrysostome speaketh of the sacrament, and the body of Christ is shewed forth in the Sacrament.

Weston. Ergo, then the Sacrament is woorthy greatest honour.

Cran. I deny the Argument.

West. That thyng is shewed forth, and is now in the earth [ostenditur & * est] Marginalia* This word [est] is not in Chrysostome. which is worthy highest honor.

But, only the body of Christ is worthy highest honor?

Ergo, the body of Christ is now on the earth. MarginaliaThis argument of Weston standing onely vpon affirmatiues in the secōd figure, hath no perfect forme in Logick.

Cran. I aunswer, the body of Christ to be on earth, but so as in a Sacrament, and as the holy Ghost is in the water of Baptisme.

West. Chrysostome sayth [ostendo[ I shew forth which noteth a substance to be present.

Cran. That is to be vnderstood Sacramentally.

West. He sayth [ostendo in terra] I shew forth on the earth, declaryng also the place where.

Cran. That is to be vnderstood figuratiuely. MarginaliaCranmer aunswereth to the place of Chrysostome how Chryst is shewed forth on the earth, not bodily but in a Sacrament, that is Sacramentally & figuratiuely.

Weston. He is shewed foorth, and is now on the earth, &c. as before.

Cran. Your Maior and conclusion are all one.

Weston. But the Maior is true: Ergo, the conclusion also is true.

That thing is on the earth, which is worthy of most high honour.

But no figure is worthy of highest honour:

Ergo, that which is on the earth is no figure.

Cran. I aunswer, that is true Sacramentally.

¶ Here Weston crieth to hym that he should answer to one part, biddyng him repeat his wordes. Which when he went about to doe, such was the noyse and crying out in the schoole, that his mylde voyce could not bee heard. For when he went about to declare to the people how þe Prolocutor did not well english the words of Chrysostome, MarginaliaWestō falsifieth the wordes of Chrysostome. vsing for ostenditur in terra, he is shewed foorth on the earth, est in terra, he is on the earth, where as Chrysostome hath not [est] nor any such word of beyng on the earth, but only of shewyng, as the grace of the holy Ghost, in baptismo ostenditur, i. is shewed forth in Baptisme: and oftentymes did inculcate this word ostēditur. Then þe Prolocutor stretching foorth his hand, set on the rude people to cry out at him, filling all the schoole with hissing, clappyng of hands, and noyse, calling him MarginaliaVnreuerend wordes vsed in the Schoole agaynst Doctor Cranmer.indoctum, imperitum, impudentem, i. vnlearned, vnskilful, impudent. Which impudent and reprochfull wordes, this reuerend man most paciently and meekely did abyde, as one that had bene inured wyth the suffryng of such lyke reproches. And when the Prolocutor not yet satisfied with this rude and vnseemely demeanor, did vrge and call vpon him to answer the argument. Thē he bade the Notary repeat his words agayne.

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Notary. That which is worthy most high honour, here I

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