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John Young
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John Young

(1514 - 1580)

DD (1553). Fellow of St John's College, Cambridge (1536). Original founder of Trinity College, Cambridge (1546). Vice-chancellor of Cambridge (1553 - 1554). Master of Pembroke College, Cambridge (1554 - 1559). Regius professor of divinity (1555). Deprived of all preferments under Elizabeth. Imprisoned (1561 - 1579). Removed to Wisbech castle and died there. (DNB)

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On 3 October 1553, Young challenged one 'maister Pierson' for ministering communion in his parish and refusing to say mass. On 5 October Pierson was discharged from his living (1563, p. 1000; 1570, p. 1635; 1576, p. 1396; 1583, p. 1466).

On 26 October 1553, John Young, acting on Stephen Gardiner's authority and in the presence of a Dr Walker, discharged John Madew as Master of Clare on the grounds that he was married. Madew was replaced by Roland Swynborne (1563, p. 1000; 1570, p. 1636; 1576, p. 1395; 1583, p. 1466).

On 31 October 1553 Young sharply reproved one 'maister Thrackolde' for challenging Young over his lenient treatment of Henry Bovell. Bovell had refused to swear to Mary's supremacy over the English church, as was still required by statute (1563, p. 1000; 1570, p. 1636; 1576, p. 1396; 1583, p. 1466).

On 3 November 1553 Young ordered the curate of the Round Church in Cambridge not to minister in the vernacular and declared that all services in Cambridge town were to be held in Latin (1563, p. 1000; 1570, p. 1636; 1576, p. 1396; 1583, p. 1466).

On 12 January 1554, Young called a congregation general at Cambridge, and ordered that a mass of the Holy Ghost be celebrated there on 18 February, Mary's birthday. This was done (1563, p. 1000; 1570, p. 1636; 1576, p. 1396; 1583, p. 1467).

John Young was one of the official disputants in the Oxford disputations of April 1554 (1563, pp. 932, 936-38 and 951-53; 1570, pp. 1591-93 and 1602-4; 1576, pp. 1358-59 and 1367-68; 1583, pp. 1428-30 and 1438-39).

[NB: A brief account of the Oxford disputations of 1554, printed only in 1563, mentions Young debating with Cranmer (1563, p. 933)].

According to Foxe, Young was present when William Glynn visited Ridley and asked Ridley's forgiveness for having spoken to him disrespectfully during Ridley's disputation on 17 April 1554 (1563, p. 971; 1570, p. 1618; 1576, p. 1380; 1583, p. 1451).

During Easter week William Wolsey conferred with Fuller, Christopherson and Dr Young. 1570, p. 1893, 1576, p. 1621,1583, p. 1715.

Young told Wolsey that laymen should not meddle with scripture, to which Wolsey counter-argued using scripture. 1570, p. 1893, 1576, p. 1621,1583, p. 1715.

Young was one of those who put the common seal of the University of Cambridge to the condemnation of Bucer and Phagius. 1563, pp. 1537 [recte 1549]-1558 [recte 1570]

John Young was present for the judgement against Bucer and Phagius on 17 January 1557. 1563, p. 1538, 1570, p. 2147, 1576, p. 1867, 1583, p. 1956.

When the commission found no witnesses to support Bucer and Phagius, they called aside DrsYoung, Sedgwick, Bullock, Taylor, Maptide, Hunter, Parker, Redman, as well as Brown, Gogman, Rud, Johnson, Mitch, Raven and Carre. They were all commanded to give witness against Bucer and Phagius. 1563, p. 1538, 1570, p. 2147, 1576, p. 1867, 1583, p. 1956.

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On 14 January 1557, after the examination of the provost and vice-provost of Cambridge, Thomas Bacon invited Perne, Dr Young, Dr Harvey, Swinborne, and Maptide to come to dinner. His examination took place before Scot, Watson and Christopherson on 14 January 1557. 1563, p. 1541, 1570, p. 2146, 1576, p. 1866, 1583, p. 1960.

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John Hullier appeared before Shaxton, Young, Segewick, Scot, Mitch and others on Palm Sunday eve at Great St Mary's. 1570, p. 2196, 1576, p. 1895, 1583, p. 2004.

1462 [1438]

Queene Mary. Disputations of Doct. Cranmer Archbishop of Canterbury at Oxford.

haue ended this controuersie. I am sure the booke of Decrees hath vero.

Cole. Now you admit the booke of Decrees, when it maketh for you. MarginaliaHere Doct. Cole beginneth to carpe.

Cran. Touching the sence of the matter, there is little difference. The chaunge of one letter for an other, is but a small matter.

West. No is? Pastor (as you know) signifieth a Byshop, and Pistor signifieth a Baker, But Pastor shalbe Pistor, a Bishop shall be a Baker by this your chaunge of one letter. If verè and vero doe nothing chaunge the sence.

Cran. Let it be so that in Pistor and Pastor one letter maketh some difference: Yet let Pistor be either a Baker or maker of bread, ye see here the change of a letter, and yet no great difference to be in the sence. 

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A rejoinder by Cranmer to a sally by Weston does not appear in the 1563 edition (See textual variant 52). It is not in the Rerum either and it may have been invented by Foxe to allow Cranmer the last word.

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 461, line 9 from the bottom

This answer does not appear in the first edition of Foxe, and looks like a jocose remark of his own.

MarginaliaD. Yong commeth in with his Socraticall interrogations.Young. This disputation is taken in hand, that the truth myght appeare. I perceiue that I must goe an other waye to worke then I had thought. It is a common saying: againste hym that denyeth principles, we must not dispute. Therfore that we may agree of the principles, I demaund whether there be any other body of Christ then his instrumentall body.

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Cran. There is no naturall body of Christe, but his organicall body.

Young. Againe I demande whether sence & reason ought to geue place to faith.

Cran. They ought.

Yong. Thirdly, whether Christ be true, in all his wordes?

Cran. Yea, he is most true, and trueth it selfe.

Yong. Fourthly, whether Christ at his supper mineded to doe that which he spake or no?

Cran. Dicendo dixit, non fecit dicendo: sed fecit Discipulis Sacramentum. That is: In saying he spake, but in sayinge hee made not, but made the sacrament to his disciples.

Yong. Answer according to the truthe: MarginaliaD. Yonges sophisticall interrogatoryes.whether did Christ that as God and man, whych he spake, when he sayde: This is my body.

Cran. This is a sophistical cauillation: go plainly to work. There is some deceite in these questions. You seeke subtlenesse, leaue your craftie fetches.

Young. I demaunde whether Christe by these woordes wrought any thing or no?

Cran. He did institute the Sacrament.

Yong. But answere, whether did he worke any thing?

Cran. He did worke in instituting the Sacrament.

Yong. Now I haue you: for before you said it was a figuratiue speache. MarginaliaThis Sillogisme speaking of a figure, hath no perfect forme nor figure.

But a figure worketh nothing.

Ergo, it is not a figuratiue speach. A lyar ought to haue a good memorie.

Cran. I vnderstoode your Sophistrie before. You by working vnderstande conuerting into the body of Christe: but Christ wrought the Sacrament, not in conuerting, but in instituting.

Young. Woe be to them that make Christ a deceiuer. Did hee worke any other thyng then hee spake, or the self same thing?

Cran. He wrought the sacrament, and by these wordes he signified the effect.

Fes-Yong. A figuratiue speach is no working thing.
ti-But the speach of Christ is working:
no.Ergo, it is not figuratiue.

Cran. It worketh by instituting, not by conuerting.

Young. The thing signified in the sacramēt, is it not in that Sacrament?

Cran. It is. For the thing is ministred in a signe. He followeth the letter that taketh the thing for the signe. MarginaliaAunswere to D. Yonge by Saint Austen.Augustine separateth the Sacrament from the thing. The Sacrament (sayeth he) is one, and the thing of the Sacrament an other.

Weston. Sticke to thys argument.

It is a figuratiue speach.

Ergo, it worketh nothing.

Young. But the speach of Christ is a working thing.

Ergo, it is not figuratiue.

Cran. O howe many craftes are in this Argument? they are meere fallacies: I sayd not that the words of Christ do worke, but Christ himselfe: and he worketh by a figuratiue speache.

Weston. If a figure worke, it maketh of bread the bodye of Christ.

Cran. A figuratiue speach worketh not.

West. A figuratiue speach by your owne cōfession, worketh nothing.

But the speach of Christ in the supper (as you graunt) wrought somewhat:

Ergo. The speach of Christe in the Supper was not figuratiue.

Cran. I answer these are meere sophismes: MarginaliaThe figuratiue speach worketh not, but Christ by the figuratiue speach worketh the Sacrament.the speach doth not worke, but Christ by the speache doth worke the sacrament.

I looke for Scriptures at your handes: for they are the foundation of disputations.

Young. Are not these wordes of scripture: This is my body? The word of Christ is of strength: and by the Lordes wordes the heauens were made. He sayd: This is my body. Ergo, he made it.

Cranmer. He made the Sacrament: and I deny your Argument.

Young. If he wrought nothing, nothing is left there. Hee sayde: This is my body. You say contrary to the Scriptures, it is not the body of Christ, and fall from the faith.

Cran. You interprete the scriptures contrary to all the old wryters, and faine a straunge sense.

Yong. Ambrose. De ijs qui initiantur sacris, cap. 9. sayeth: De totius mundi operibus legisti, quia ipse dixit, & facta sunt, ipse mandauit & creata sunt. Sermo Christi qui potuit ex nihilo facere quod non erat, non potest ea quæ sunt in id mutare quæ non erant? Non enim minus est nouas res dare, quam mutare naturas: Sed quid argumentis vtimur? suis vtamur exemplis, incarnationis; exemplo astruamus mysterij veritatem. Nunquid naturæ vsus præcessit cum Dominus Iesus ex Maria nasceretur? Si ordinem quærimus, viro mixta fœmina generare consueuit, Liquet igitur quod præter naturæ ordinem virgo generauit: & hoc quod conficimus corpus ex virgine est. Quid hic quæris naturæ ordinem in Christi corpore, cum pr&çter naturam sit ipse Dominus Iesus partus ex virgine? Vera vtiqne caro Christi quæ Crucifixa est, quæ sepulta est: verè ergò illius Sacramentum est. Clamat Dominus Iesus: Hoc est corpus meum. Ante benedictionem verborum cœlestium alia species nominatur, post consecrationem corpus significatur. Ipse dicit sanguinem suum. Ante consecrationem aliud dicitur: post consecrationem sanguis nuncupatur. Et tu dicis, Amen: hoc est, verum est. Quod os loquitur, mens interna fateatur: quod sermo sonat, affectus sentiat. MarginaliaAmbros. De Ijs qui initiantur, &c. cap. 9.That is.

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Thou hast read of the workes of all the worlde, that he spake the word and they were made: he commaunded and they were created. Can not the word of Christ which made of nothing that which was not, chaunge those things that are, into that they were not? For it is no les matter to geue newe things, then to chaunge natures. But what vse wee Argumentes? let vs vse hys owne examples, and lette vs confirme the veritie of the mysterie by example of hys incarnation. Did not the vse of nature goe before, when the Lord Iesus was borne of Marye? If you seeke the order oi nature, cōception is wont to be made by a woman ioyned to a man. It is manifest therfore, that contrary to the Marginalia* As Christ Iesus was conceaued agaynst the order of nature: so in the instituting of this Sacrament the order of nature is not to be sought.* order of nature, a virgin did conceiue: and this that we make, is the body of the virgin. What seekest thou heere the order of nature in þe body of Christe, when against the order of nature the Lorde Iesus was conceiued of a Virgine? It was the true flesh of Christe whiche was crucified, and which was buried: therefore it is truely the sacrament of him. The lord Iesus himselfe crieth: This is my body. Before the blessing of the heauenly wordes, it is named another kinde: but after the consecration the body of Christ is signified. He calleth it his bloud. Before consecration, it is called an other thing: after consecration it is called bloud, and thou sayest Amen: that is, it is true, That the mouth speaketh, let the inward mind confesse: that the word soūdeth, let the hart perceiue.

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The same Ambrose in his 4. booke of sacraments the 4. chap. sayth thus: MarginaliaAmbrosius lib. De Sacramentis cap. 4.Panis iste, panis est ante verba Sacramētorum vbi accesserit consecratio, de pane fit caro Christi. Hoc igitur astruamns: quomodo potest, qui panis est, corpus esse Christi consecratione? consecratio igitur quibus verbis est, & cuius sermonibus? Domini Iesu. Nam ad reliqua omnia quæ dicūtur, laus Deo defertur, oratione petitur pro populo, pro regibus, pro cæteris, vbi venitur vt conficiatur venerabile Sacramentum, iam non suis sermonibus Sacerdos vtitur, sed sermonibus Christi. Ergò sermo Christi hoc conficit Sacramentum. Quis sermo nempe is quo facta sunt omnia. Iussit Dominus & factum est cœlum: iussit Dominus & facta est terra: iussit Dominus & facta sunt Maria. &c. Vides ergo quam operatorius sit sermo Christi. Si ergo tanta vis est in sermone Domini, vt inciperent esse quæ non erant, quanto magis operatorius est, vt sint quæ erant & in aliud commutentur.

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That is to say.

MarginaliaThe wordes of Ambrose in Englishe.This bread is breade before the wordes of the Sacraments, when the consecration commeth to it, of bread it is made the flesh of Christ. Let vs cōfirme this therfore: how can that whyche is breade, by consecration be the bodye of Christ? by what words then is the consecration made, and by whose wordes? by the wordes of our Lorde Iesus. For touching all other things that are sayde, praise is geuen to God, prayer is made for the people, for kinges, and for the

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