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William Pye
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William Pye

(d. 1557)

D.D., Archdeacon of Berkshire (1547 - 1557); dean of Chichester (1553 - 1557) (Fasti, Foster )

Pye gave an oration at the beginning of the 1553 convocation (1570, p. 1571; 1576, p. 1340; and 1583, p. 1410).

He objected to Philpot?s arguments against transubstantiation and prevailed upon Hugh Weston, the prolocutor of the 1553 convocation, to silence Philpot (1563, p. 911; 1570, p. 1575; 1576, p. 1344; 1583, p. 1414).

He was appointed as one of the official disputants at the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932 and 936; 1570, p. 1592; 1576, p. 1358; 1583, p. 1428-29).

Pye was one of the catholic disputants in the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932, 936, 938, 953, 959, 977, 983 and 985; 1570, pp. 1592-93, 1604, 1608, 1622 and 1626-27; 1576, pp. 1358-59, 1368, 1372, 1383 and 1387-88; 1583, pp. 1429-30, 1439, 1443, 1454 and 1458-59).

[NB: A brief account of the Oxford disputations of 1554, which was only printed in 1563, lists Pye as one of those who disputed with Cranmer (1563, p. 933-34). This account also mentions a ?maister Price?, citing canon law against Cranmer (1563, p. 933) and disputing with Ridley (1563, p. 934). ?Price? may very well be a mistake for Pye.]

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[Also referred to as 'Price' and 'Pie']

1482 [1458]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Maister Latimer at Oxford.

and commaunded in the new.

Ergo, it is very bloud that we drinke in the new.

¶ This argument, because the Maior thereof is not vniuersall, is not formall, and may well be retorted agaynst West. thus.

MarginaliaD. Westons argument retorted agaynst himselfe. Ce-
No naturall or morall thyng forbidden materially
in the old Testament, is commanded in the new.
To drinke mans naturall bloud, is forbidden ma-
terially in the old Testament:
Ergo, to drinke mans naturall bloud materially, is
not commaunded in the new.

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MarginaliaAunswere. Lat. It is commaunded spiritually to be dronken, I grant it is bloud dronken in the new Testament, but we receyue it spiritually.

Pie. It was not forbidden spiritually in the old law.

Latimer. The substaunce of bloud is dronken, but not in one maner.

Pie. It doth not require the same maner of drinkyng.

Lat. It is the same thyng, not the same manner. I haue no more to say.

Weston. Here Weston cited the place of MarginaliaChrysost.Chrysostome, of Iudas treason: O Iudæ dementia. Ille cum Iudæis triginta denarijs paciscebatur, vt Christum venderet, & Christus ei sanguinem, quem vendidit, offerebat: That is, O the madnesse of Iudas. He made bargayne with the Iewes for thirtie pence to sell Christ, and Christ offred him his bloud which he sold.

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Lat. I graunt he offred to Iudas his bloud, which he sold, but in a sacrament.

Weston. Because ye can defend your Doctors no better, ye shall see how worshipfull men ye hang vpon, and one that hath bene of your mynd, shall dispute with you. MarginaliaD. Cartwryght vrged to dispute.M. Cartwright, I pray you dispute.

Cart. Reuerend father, because it is geuen me in commandement to dispute with you, I will do it gladly. But first vnderstand ere we go any further, that I was in the same errour that you are in: 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Addenda, ref. page 508, middle

The recantation of Nicholas Cartryght, Dr. of Divinity, and Vicar of a Parish in the diocese of Cov. and Lichfield, may be seen in the Harleian MS. 421.

MarginaliaCartwright returning to his olde error agayne.but I am sory for it, and do confesse my selfe to haue erred. I acknowledge myne offence, and I wyshe and desire God that you also may repente wyth me.

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Latimer. Wyll you geue me leaue to tell what hath caused M. Doctour here to recant? MarginaliaArgumentum a pœna legis Durū & difficile.It is pœna legis, the payne of the law, which hath brought you backe, and conuerted you, and many moe: the which letteth many to confesse God. And this is a great argument, there are few here can dissolue it.

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Cartwright. That is not my cause, but I wil make you this short Argument, by which I was conuerted from myne erroures.

MarginaliaArgum. a destructione consequentis, ad destructionem antecedentis.If the true bodye of Christ bee not really in the Sacrament, all the whole Church hath erred from the Apostles tyme.

But Christ would not suffer his church to erre:

Ergo, it is the true body of Christ.

Lat. The popish Church hath erred, & doth erre. MarginaliaNo mentiō made of any eating, but spiritually in the Church for the space of 700. yeares.I thinke for the space of sixe or seuen hundred yeares, there was no mentiō made of any eathing but spiritually: for before these fiue hundred yeares, the Church did euer confesse a spirituall maducation. But the Romish church begate the errour of transubstantiation. My Lord of Caunterburies booke handleth that very well, and by him I could answer you, if I had hym.

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Cart. Linus and all the rest do confesse the body of Christ to be in the Sacrament: and S. Augustine also vpon the 98. Psalme, vpon this place: Adorate scabellum pedum. &c. grāteth it to be worshipped.

Lat. We doe worship Christ in the heauens, & we do worship him in the Sacrament: but the massing worship is not to be vsed.

Smyth. Doe you thinke that Cyrill was of the auncient Church?

Lat. I do thinke so.

Smyth. He sayth, that Christ dwelleth in vs corporally: These be Cyrils words of the mysticall benediction.

Lat. That ( MarginaliaCyrillus in Ioan. Lib. 10. cap. 13.* corporally) hath another vnderstanding, then you do grossely take it.

¶ Cyrill sayth, that Christ dwelleth corporally in vs, but he sayth not that Christ dwelleth corporally in þe bread. Which dwelling of Christ in vs, is as our dwelling is also in Christ, not locall or corporall, but spiritual & heauenly (corporally) therfore it is to be takē here in the same sense as S. Paul saith, the fulnes of diuinitie to dwell in Christ corporally, that is, not lightly nor accidentally, but perfect-

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ly and substantially, with all his vertue and power, &c. And so dwelleth Christ corporally in vs also.

Smyth. Here Smyth repeateth these words of Cyrill: Per communionem corporis Christi, habitat in nobis Christus corporaliter: That is, By the communicating of the bodye of Christ, Christ dwelleth in vs corporally.

Latimer. The solution of this is in my Lord of Caunterburies booke.

Smyth. Cyrill was no papist, and yet these be his wordes: Christ dwelleth in vs corporally, but you say he dwelleth in vs spiritually.

Latimer. I say both: that he dwelleth in vs both corporally and spiritually, accordyng to his meanyng: Spiritually by fayth, and corporally by taking our flesh vpon hym. For I remember I haue read this in my Lord of Canterburies booke.

Weston For because your learnyng is let out to Ferme, and shut vp in my Lord of Caunterburies booke. MarginaliaThe immodest behauiour of this Iacke scorner to be noted. I wyll recite vnto you a place of S. Ambrose, De apparatione ad Missam, where he sayth: Videmus principem sacerdotem ad nos venientem, & offerentem sanguinem, &c. That is, Wee see the chiefe Prieste commyng vnto vs, and offeryng bloud, &c.

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Likewise both Augustine in the 38. Psal. and Chrysostome, concerning the incomprehensible nature of God, Tom. 3. say: Non solum homines, &c. MarginaliaAugust. in Psal. 31. Chrisost De incomprehensibili Dei natura.

Lat. I am not ashamed to acknowledge myne ignoraunce, and these testimonies are more then I can beare away.

West. Then must you leaue some behynde you for lacke of cariage.

MarginaliaChrisost. full of fignratiue speaches and Emphaticall loquutions. Latimer. But for Chrysostome, hee hath many figuratiue speaches, and Emphaticall loquutions, in many places, as in that which you haue now recited: but he sayeth not, For the quicke and the dead: he taketh the celebration for the sacrifice.

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West. You shall heare Chrysostome againe, vpon the ninth chap. of the Acts: MarginaliaChrisost. in Act. cap. 9. Quid dicis? Hostia in manibus sacerdotis, &c.  

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 509, line 27

It is proper to remark, that Diaconi is the word used in the passage referred to, not Sacerdotis. (See Chrysostom, hom. 21, ¶ 4, upon the Acts.)

He doth not call it a cup of wyne.

Lat. Ye haue myne answer there with you in a paper: and yet he calleth it not, Propitiatorium sacrificium, i. A propitiatorie sacrifice.

West. You shal heare it to be so: and I bring another place of Chrysostome out of the same treatise: Non temerè ab Apostolis est institutum, &c.

Weston. He is too precious a thing for vs to offer: he offereth hymselfe.

Weston. Here in another place of Chrysostome to the people of Antioche, Homil. 69. MarginaliaChrisost. ad populum Antioch. Hom. 69 and also to the Philippians he sayeth: There should bee a memorye and sacrifice for the dead.

Lat. I doe say that the holy communion beareth the name of a sacrifice, because it is a sacrifice memoratiue.

Weston. How say you to the sacrifice for the dead.

Lat. I say that it needeth not, or it booteth not.

West. Augustine in his Enchiridion, the 110. chap. sayeth: Non est negandum defunctorum animos pietate suorum viuentium releuari, quum pro illis sacrificium Mediatoris offertur: MarginaliaAugust Encherid. cap. 110. That is, We must not deny, that the soules of the dead are relieued by the deuotion of their friends which are liuing, when the sacrifice of the Mediatour is offered for them. Where he prooueth the veritie of Christes body, & praying for the dead. MarginaliaAugust. falsly belyed to say Masse for his Mother.And it is sayd, that the same Augustine sayd masse for his mother. 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 509, line 11 from the bottom

Reference is made by Dr. Milner (End of Controversy) "to St. Augustine's account of the death of his mother Monica. On her death-bed she had entreated him to remember her soul at the altar; and in compliance with this request, after her decease he performed this duty in order, as he declares, 'to obtain the pardon of her sins.' (Aug. Confess. ix. c. 13. ¶ 35). But what can this have to do with the point in question? In the first place purgatory is not a place of pardon, but of punishment. Nor only is Augustine silent respecting any temporal pains, but he adds: - 'I believe that thou hast already done what I ask;' so that his prayer could not be for her release from the Papal Tartarus." (Elliott's Delineation of Roman Catholicism, p. 277, Lond. 1844.)

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Lat. But that masse was not like yours, which thing doth manifestly appeare in his writings, which are agaynst it in euery place. And Augustine is a reasonable man, he requireth to be beleued no further, then he bringeth scripture for his proofe, and agreeth with Gods word.

West. In the same place he proueth a propiciatorie sacrifice and that vpon an aulter, and no MarginaliaThe blasphemous mouth of D. Weston, calling the Lordes table an Oyster bord.Oyster boord.

Lat. It is the Lords table, and no Oyster boord. It may be called an aultar, and so the doctors call it in many places: but there is no propiciatorie sacrifice, but only Christ. The doctors might be deceiued in some points, though not in all things. MarginaliaDoctores legendi sunt cum venia.* I beleeue them when they say well.

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Cole. Is it not a shame for an old man to lye? You say, you are of the old fathers fayth, where they say well, and yet ye are not.

Lat. I am of their faith when they say well. I referre my selfe to my L. of Caunterburies booke wholy herein. 

Commentary  *  Close

The text Latimer repeatedly cited as 'Cranmer's book' was Thomas Cranmer, A defence of the true and catholike doctrine of the sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ (STC 6000-6002).

Smyth. Then are you not of Chrysostomes faith, nor of S. Augustines fayth.

Lat. I haue said, when they said well, and bring scripture for them, I am of their faith, and further Augustine requireth not to be beleeued.

West. Origen. Hom. 13. vpon Leuiticus.

Latimer. I haue but one worde to say, Panis Sacramentalis,

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