Critical Apparatus for this Page
Commentary on the Text
Names and Places on this Page
Unavailable for this Edition
1244 [1244]

K. Hen. 8. Steph. Wint. De Vera obedientia. Agaynst the Popes supremacie.

cere: for asmuch as 

Commentary  *  Close

This carries on the deconstruction of Matthew 16.18. Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fijb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.133).

the wordes of Christ should then be contrary to his own factes & example, who in all his life neuer vsurped either to him selfe any such domination aboue Princes, shewyng hym selfe rather subiecte vnto Princes, nor yet did euer permitte in his Apostles any such example of ambition to be seene: but rather rebuked them for seeking any maner of maioritie amōgest them.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaThe kings stile and title approued by St. Wint.And where hee reasoneth of the kynges stile and title, beyng called the kyng of England 

Commentary  *  Close

Gardiner was here making the not unreasonable but standard Henrician argument that the members of the temporal and spiritual spheres were not distinct societies but were both of the same realm - England. Foxe here quotes selections from Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sigs.Cviijb-Db (or see Janelle, True Obedience, pp.91-3).

[Back to Top]
, and of Fraunce, defendour of the faith, Lord of Ireland, and supreme head in earth of the Church of England immediatly vnder Christ. &c. thus he addeth his mynd, and cēsure, saying that hee seeth no cause in this title, why any man should be offended, that the kyng is called head of the church of England, rather then of the realme of England, and addeth his reason therunto saying: If the Prince and King of England be the head of hys kyngdome, that is, of all englishe mē that be his subiectes, is there any cause why the same englishe subiectes shoulde not be subiect to the same head likewise in this respecte because they are christians, that is to say, for the title of godlynes, as though that God which is the cause of all obedience, should now be the cause of rebellion?

[Back to Top]

At length thus hee concludeth with an exclamation, saying: To say (sayeth he) 

Commentary  *  Close

Gardiner is simply juxtaposing the idea of a king not entirely sovereign in his own realm. Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Diijc (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.97).

that a kyng is the head of the kygdome, and not of the church what an absurde, and a foolishe saying is this?

MarginaliaThe king is as well the head of the church as of his kingdome.And farther, 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Diija (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.97).

adding for example, the subiection of the seruaunt & wyfe: If the seruaunt (sayth he) be subiect to his maister, or wyfe to her husband beyng infidels, doth their conuersion afterward, or name of Christians make them lesse subiectes, then they were before? As religion therfore doth not alter the authoritie of the Maister ouer the seruaunt, nor of the husband ouer the wyfe: no more (sayeth he) doth it betwen the Prince and subiectes.

[Back to Top]

Paule makyng no 

Commentary  *  Close

This is one of the most commonly used passages from the Henrician apologists. Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sigs.Diijb - iiija (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.99).

exception nor distinction of subiection, saue only of that which belongeth to God, willeth all men to obey their Princes, and what Princes? Those Princes whiche beare the sword. And although we be bounde by the scripture to obey our Bishops and spirituall Pastors of the church, yet that obediēce diminisheth nothing the chief and head anthoritie that ought to be gyuē to the Prince, no more then the obedience of the seruaunt to his Maister, or of the wife to her housband exempteth them from subiection dewe to their superiour powers.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaA rule of the law.And herewithall he inferreth a principle of þe law. Diuers Iurisdictions 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Ddvb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.103).

(sayth he) proceding from one person do not marre nor hinder themselues, but rather do confirme and fortifye one an other.

Againe, where as the Byshop of Rome vnder þe name of Peter doth appropriate to hym selfe the hyghest place in the Churche, for that he is the successour of Peter: ther unto he aunswereth in one worde, but in that one worde he aūswereth enough and to the full: MarginaliaWinchesters wish, that the pope were Peters successor.I would (sayth he) 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe here is paraphrasing Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fiia (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.131).

he were: for so in very deede he might well excede & passe all kinges and princes, if not in preheminēce of dignitie, yet in admiration and excellencie of vertue. In whiche kynd of superioritie the Lord Christ would his Apostles and Ministers to go before all kynges and Emperours in the whole world.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaArgument
The prerogatiue was geuen to hym which confessed.
Fleshe and bloud in Peter dyd not confesse Christ.
Ergo, the prerogatiue was not geuen to the flesh and bloud of Peter.
After this, in prosecutyng the argument of Peters cōfession, he argueth thus and sayth: That as flesh & bloud 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe here quotes Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fiijb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.135).

did not reuele to Peter that confession: so neither was that prerogatiue giuen to the fleshe and bloud of Peter, but to þe better part, that is, to the spirite of Peter, which is to meane, in respecte of the spirituall confession of Peter, and not in respecte of any carnall place or person. &c.

[Back to Top]

Item, if the scholar 

Commentary  *  Close

Eusebius is one of the standard Henrician sources. Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fiijb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.135). Gardiner makes reference to John 13, using this as evidence of equality among the disciples.

ought not to be aboue the master, how then could either Peter take that vpon hym, which Christ his master so constantly did refuse, or how can the Byshop of Rome now clayme that by succession, whereof no example is to be founde either in the head, or hys predecessor before hym? For so we read in Eusebius, both of Peter, Iames, and Iohn, that they did arrogate no such primacie vnto them, but were content that Iames surnamed Iustus, should be the Byshop of the Apostles.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaPrimatus or Primacie, what it signifieth.And as for 

Commentary  *  Close

Gardiner was making a kind of primus enter pares argument here. Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fvja (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.143).

the name and signification of the worde Primatus. I, primacie, if it be takē for the first nomination, or the first place giuen, so he graūteth that Peter had the preferment of the first name and place in the order of the Apostles. But it foloweth not, that with this primacie he had also a kyngdome gyuen. MarginaliaHe sayth, confirme thy brethren, but not thy subiectes.And though he were byd of the Lord to cōfirme hys brethren: yet was he not byd to exercise an imperye vpō his brethren, for so were they not hys brethren, but hys subiectes.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaPrimus.
Primatus.
1. Primacie, meaneth as much as the first standyng in a vocation, & is the name of vertue, and not of power.
That Peter was Primus, 

Commentary  *  Close

This is carrying on the primus enter pares discussion with specific examples - the renowned artist Apelles of Kos (4th century BC), the university of Paris. Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Fvab (or see Janelle, True Obedience, pp.141-3).

that is, first or chiefe in the number of them whiche confessed Christ, it is not to bee denyed. For first he confessed, first he taught the Iewes, first he stode in defēse of the veritie, and was the first and chiefe prolocutor amongest them: but yet that maketh not, that hee shoulde therefore vendicate a generall primacie and rule ouer all other states, and potestates of the worlde, no more then Apelles because hee is noted the first and chief of all paynters, therfore he ought to beare rule ouer all Paynters? or because the Vniuersitie of Paris is nominate for the first and chiefe of other Vniuersities, shall therefore the Frenche kyng, and all other Princes in their publicke administration, wherin they are set of God become subiectes and vnderlinges to that Vniuersitie?

[Back to Top]

Thus after many other reasons and persuasions conteined in the sayd booke De obedientia (for I do but superficially skymme ouer þe toppe only of hys probations and argumentes) finally in the end of hys peroration, he concludeth the whole summe of hys minde, in this effect: first denying that 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Giijb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.155).

the Bishop of Rome had euer any such externe iurisdiction assigned to him absolutely frō God, to reigne ouer Kyngs and Princes. For the probation wherof he hath alleaged sufficiently (as he sayeth) the examples and doyngs of Christ hymselfe, whiche ought to be to vs all a sufficiēt document.

[Back to Top]

And as concernyng the terme of primacie, albeit it be vsed some tyme of the fathers, yet the matter beyng well considered and rightly expounded maketh nothyng for the large dominion of the Byshop of Rome, whiche now he doth vsurpe.

Also as for the prerogatiues graunted vnto Peter, by the whiche prerogatiues our Sauiour would crown his own giftes gyuen vnto hym, crownyng not the flesh & bloud of Peter, but the meruelous testimonie of his cōfession, all this maketh nothyng for the Popes purpose.

MarginaliaSuccession of Peter.Likewise as 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Giijb (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.155).

cōcerning þe local successiō of Peter, þe pope hath nothing therby to claime. If he wil be successour of Peter, he must succede him in faith, doctrine, & cōditions, and in so doyng, hee neyther will neither yet shall neede to seke for honor, but shall bee honored of all good men, accordyng as a good man should be, and that much more then he being a good man would requyre.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaStep. Wint. taketh his Vale of the Pope, but not hys vltimum vale.And thus Ste. Wint. 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe is here quoting Gardiner at De vera obedientia, sig.Giiija (or see Janelle, True Obedience, p.157).

takyng his leaue, and byddyng the Pope farewell, endeth with a frendly exhortation, willing him to be wise and circūspect, and not to stryue stubburnely against the truth. The light of the Gospell (sayth he) so spreadeth his beames in all mens eyes, þt the workes of the Gospell be knowen, the mysteries of Christes doctrine are opened: both learned and vnlearned, men and women beyng Englishe men borne, do see and perceiue, that they haue nothyng to do with Rome nor with the Byshop of Rome, but that euery prince in his owne dominion, is to be taken and accepted as a Vicar of God, and Vicegerent of Christ in his owne boundes. MarginaliaThe office of teachyng.
The office of rulyng.
And therfore seyng this order is taken of God, that one in the Churche should beare the office of teachyng, an other should beare the office of rulyng, (which office is onely limited to Princes) he exhorteth hym to consider the truth, and to folow the same, wherin consisteth our true and speciall obedience. &c.

[Back to Top]

To this booke of Steph. Wint. De obedientia, we wil adioyne for good felowship, the preface also of Edmunde Boner Archedeacon then of Leicester 

Commentary  *  Close

Edmund Bonner would be created bishop of Hereford (26 October 1538) and bishop of London (20 October 1539). The Janelle edition of De vera obedientia does not include the preface. A modern edition of this can be found in Heywood's edition. [See, Bishop Gardiner's Oration on True Obedience, ed. by B A Heywood (London, 1870), pp.29-34]. Foxe paraphrases the preface very closely here (without too much variation).

[Back to Top]
, prefixed before the same, to þe entent þt the reader seing þe iudgements of these men, as they were then 
Commentary  *  Close

Foxe is more or less complaining here that the Henricians - Gardiner, Bonner, Tunstal and a few others - all at one time or other opposed reformation under Edward VI and re-conformed to papal supremacy under Mary I.

, and agayne the soden mutation afterward of the sayd parties to the cōtrary opiniō, may learne therby what vayne glory and pompe of this world can worke in the frayle nature of man, where Gods grace lacketh to susteyne. The preface of Boner before the said boke of Wint. De odedientia, proceadeth thus in effecte, as foloweth.

[Back to Top]
¶ The preface of Edmunde Boner Archedeacon of Leicester, prefixed before Stephen Gardiners booke, De obedientia.

MarginaliaBoners preface before Winchesters booke of Obedience.FOrasmuch as some there be, no doubt (as the iudgements of men be alwayes variable) whiche thynke the controuersie which is betwene the kyngs royal Maiestye, and the Bishop of Rome consisteth in this poynte,

for
BBB.iiij.
Go To Modern Page No:  
Click on this link to switch between the Modern pagination for this edition and Foxe's original pagination when searching for a page number. Note that the pagination displayed in the transcription is the modern pagination with Foxe's original pagination in square brackets.
Find:
Type a keyword and then restrict it to a particular edition using the dropdown menu. You can search for single words or phrases. When searching for single words, the search engine automatically imposes a wildcard at the end of the keyword in order to retrieve both whole and part words. For example, a search for "queen" will retrieve "queen", "queene" and "queenes" etc.
in:  
Humanities Research Institute  *  HRI Online  *  Feedback
Version 2.0 © 2011 The University of Sheffield