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1644 [1606]

Quene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Ridley Byshop of London at Oxford. Doct. Smyth.

MarginaliaAn. 1554. Aprill.as it appeareth. Where his wordes are these: Et si quæras quare voluit Ecclesia eligere istum intellectum ita difficilem huius articuli, cum verba Scripturæ possint saluari secundum intellectum facilem & veriorem, secundum apparentiam, de hoc articulo. &c. That is: And if you demaund why the church did chuse this so hard an vnderstāding of this Article, whereas the wordes of Scripture may be salued after an easy and true vnderstandyng (as appeareth) of this Article. &c.

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Cran. It is not so.

MarginaliaD. Cranmer chalenged for setting forth the Catechisme in the name of the Conuocation.West. Also you haue set foorth a Catechisme, in the name of the Synode of London, and yet there bee 50. which witnessing that they were of the number of that Conuocatiō, neuer heard one word of this Catechisme.

MarginaliaD. Cranmer purgeth hym selfe concerning the Catechisme.Cran. I was ignoraunt of the settyng to of that title: and as sone as I had knowledge therof, I did not like it. Therfore when I complayned therof to the Counsell, it was aunswered me by them, that the booke was so intituled, because it was set forth in time of the Conuocation.

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West. Moreouer, you haue in Duns translated in Romana Ecclesia, pro Ecclesia Catholica. i. In the church of Rome, for the Catholicke Church.

Cran. Yea, but he ment the Romish Church.

MarginaliaD. Cranmer charged with mistranslating Th. Aquinus.West. Moreouer, you haue depraued Saint Thomas, namely where he hath these wordes: In quantum vero est sacrificium habet vim satisfactiuam. Sed in satisfactione attenditur magis affectio offerentis, quàm quantitas oblationis. Vnde Dominus dicit apud Lucam de vidua quæ obtulit duo æra, quòd plus omnibus misit. Quanuis ergo hæc oblatio ex sui quantitate sufficiet ad satisfaciēdum pro omni pœna: tamen fit satisfactoria illis pro quibus offertur, vel etiam offerentibus secundum quantitatem suæ deuotionis, & non pro tota pœna. That is: In asmuch as it is a sacrifice, it hath the power of satisfaction. But in satisfaction the affection of the offerer is more to bee weyed then the quātity of the oblation. Wherfore þe Lord sayd in Lukes Gospell, of the wydow which offered two mites, that she cast in more then they all. Therfore, although this oblation of the quantity of it selfe will suffice to satisfy for all payne, yet it is made satisfactory to them, for whom it is offered, or to the offerers, accordyng to the quantity of theyr deuotion, and not for all the payne.

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You haue thus turned it: Quod sacrificium Sacerdotis habet vim satisfactiuam. &c. That is: That the sacrifice of the Priest hath power of satisfaction. &c. And therfore in this place you haue chopped in this worde [Sacerdotis] of the Priest, whereas in the translation of all the new Testamēt, you haue not set it, but where Christ was put to death. And agayne, where S. Thomas hath [pro omni pœna] for all payne, your booke omitteth many thynges there.

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MarginaliaWeston triumpheth before the victory.Thus you see (brethren) the truth stedfast and inuincible: you see also the craft and deceite of heretickes. The truth may bee pressed, but it can not bee oppressed. Therfore cry altogether: Vincit veritas. i. The truth ouercommeth.

This disordered Disputations 

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Foxe concluded the account of Cranmer's disputations by transposing a brief description of it to its proper chronological place (textual transposition 16).

some tyme in Latin, sometyme in English, continued almost till ij. of the clocke. Which being finished, and þe Argumentes written and deliuered to the handes of M. Say, the prisoner was had away by the Maior, and the Doctors dyned together at the Vniuersitie Colledge.

¶ Disputations at Oxford betwene D. Smith, with hys other Colleages and Doctors, and Byshop Ridley. Aprill. 17. 
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Block 19: Ridley's disputation

In the Rerum, Foxe's account of Ridley's disputation was based on a single version of Ridley's own narrative of his disputation (Rerum, pp. 660-95). One again, Grindal had obtained a copy of Ridley's account of his disputation in the Bishop's own hand (BL Harley 417, fol. 119r) and once again, it does not seem to have been available to Foxe for the Rerum. In the Actes and Monuments, Foxe continued to rely on this narrative, but he had multiple versions of it. There are a number of different versions of Ridley's narrative which survive in Foxe's papers: BL Lansdowne MS 389, fols. 118r-124v and 130r-134v; ECL MS 262, fols. 3r-15v and 17v-25v; BL Harley MS 422, fols. 54r-58v and (in Latin) fols. 68r-83v. The number of these copies is testimony to Foxe's zeal in obtaining as much material on the Oxford disputations as he could gather; he obtained one copy from Grindal (see 1570, p. 1901).

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As with Cranmer's disputation, the 1563 version of Ridley's disputation has sections of text which are not in the Rerum; almost certainly because Foxe's single copy of Ridley's narrative was defective and also because Foxe had multiple versions on which to draw for the 1563 edition.

 

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Ridley

In the initial stages, the glosses are less adversarial than in much of the Cranmer section because Ridley leaps in more forcefully and dictates the agenda for a time; the glosses mostly respect and emphasize his divisions and offer commentary on procedure and clarification. Once disputation itself begins, the glosses return to a more familiar pattern, with many logical points (e.g. 'A rule of Logike for confirmation of the argument' (1563), '* The rule of Logicke is this A propositione de tertio adiacente, ad eam quæ est de secundo, cum verbo recto significante existentiam, valet consequentia affirmatiue &c', 'This argument holdeth after the same rule as did the other before', 'This argument is not formall in the 2. figure').

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As with Cranmer, there is one example of Foxe correcting Ridley (in this case clarifiying a point about the beneficiaries of the promise in bread and wine, '* No promise made to bread & wine, as they be common bread and common wine, but as they be sanctified & made sacramēts of the Lords body and bloud, they are not now called bread nor wine, haue a promise annexed to them, or rather (to say the trueth) annexed to the receauers of thē'). Several definitions of obscure terms are in all editions ('Anthropophagi, are a kinde of brutishe people that feed on mens flesh', 'Anagogicall sense is that which hath a high and misticall vnderstanding that lyeth abstruse & profound vnder the externall letter'). A feature emerging for the first time in this section is the taunting of the martyrs' tormentors with their embarrassing past actions ('D. Smith purposing to write for the mariage of Priestes', 'But where were these Iudges in K. Edwardes tyme', 'D. Weston in K. Edwards dayes subscribed' and 'The Iudges * geue an vntrue verdite: for D. Cranmer meaning by the Counsell, spake no word of Ridley'). It may be that Foxe simply took the opportunity as it arose, but it may also be that the margin's accusations partly served to distract the reader from Ridley's cautious response to the question of his involvement in setting forth the catechism.

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This section includes a portion of the 1563 text which is unusually well annotated. This spate of marginalia occurs largely around pp. 961-62 (from the gloss '3'), and does not seem to be focussed on a particular subject (it straddles Ridley's response to the second and third propositions). Many of the references on p. 962 are (unnecessarily, to judge from later practice) repeated pointers to Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10. They give the impression of an uncertain experiment in adding marginalia in this early version, which may be compared with the grounding of much of the later annotation in the layout and other features of 1563.

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As with Cranmer's disputation, several of the glosses offer comments on the sacrament. The gloss 'The Analogie of the sacramēt is the similitude and likenes whiche they haue with the thinges they represent' gives a definition of the analogy of the sacraments, once again emphasising their representative function; the glosses 'The true presence of Christes body in the Supper not denyed' and 'The fayth & confession of D. Ridley in affirming the true presēce in the Sacrament' point to a discussion of the true presence, and to Ridley's belief in it; the gloss 'Christes abode in heauen is no let for him to appeare on earth when he will, but whether he wil, that must be proued. Againe it is one thing to appeare on earth, an other still in the Sacrament, and to be present the same time with his body in heauen, whē he is bodely present in earth' once again points the reader back to the sacramental significance of the discussion of Christ's presence in heaven: these cases are less a matter of comment than of making clear to a less learned reader what was familiar to the disputants. There is a group of references which emphasise the singleness of Christ's sacrifice ('One Christ but not one body, nor after on bodely substance in all places'; 'One Christ and one sacrifice in all places, and how: to wit, christ by veritie the sacrifice by, signification' and 'How one christ is offered in many places at once'): this relates to the implicit opposition between protestant and catholic, the former recognizing the all-sufficiency of a single sacrifice, the latter misled by carnality to endless, unintentionally parodic re-enactments. This also links to the rules of polemical engagement: the importance of presenting oneself as a defender of what is holy and truthful was paramount in mounting these attacks, and the implication that the central rite of the catholic church was a continuous performance of ingratitude and disdain for Christ gave license for just anger.

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The gloss 'Quam sit Stupida & crassa responsio tua' is a Latin transcript of insults translated in the text; the point of the translation would seem to be to leave the reader in no doubt of the vehemence of the precise terms employed: once again, a contrast is drawn between the moderate and the railing protagonists. See also 'Sacrifice called vnbloudy is nothing els but a representation of the bloudy Sacrifice of Christ' and 'D. Weston bloweth vp the triumph' (attacking Weston's arrogance). For examples of 1583 being less well produced than earlier editions, see the glosses 'Christes appearing on the earth sometime, taketh not away his residēce in heauen. How christ appeared in earth', 'Quam sit Stupida & crassa responsio tua', 'Of this Catechisme read before pag. 1357'. The gloss 'The protestantes falsely belyed to teach nothing but a figure in the sacrament' uses 'protestantes', a word not in the text, but perhaps more acceptable (or at least accepted) by 1570.

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MarginaliaAprill. 17.THe next day folowyng, which was the 17. of Aprill, was brought forth Doct. Ridley to dispute: against whom was set MarginaliaD. Smyth sent to dispute agaynst Bysh. Ridley.D. Smith to be principall Opponent. Touching which Doct. Smith, 
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Foxe made some interesting additions to Ridley's disputation in the 1570 edition. The first of these was a brief account of Dr. Richard Smith's career together with a grovelling letter from Smith to Cranmer written in 1550 (see textual variant 55). This letter, with another similar epistle from Smith to Cranmer, written about the same time, was printed in Peter Martyr Virmigli, Defensio D. Petri Martyris Vermelli Florentini ... ad Ricardi Smythaei Angli, olim Theologicae professoris Oxoniensis duos libellos de Caelibatu Sacerdotum, et votis monasticis, nunc primum in luce editu (Basel: Peter Peran, 1559), pp. 645-48. (The letters may well have been given to Martyr by Cranmer himself). Foxe almost certainly translated this letter from Martyr's book.

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for somuch as mention here happeneth of his name, first þe Reader is to be aduertised what is to be attributed to hys iudgement in Religiō, which so often tymes before hath turned & returned to & fro, grounded (as it seemeth) vpō no firme cōsciēce of doctrine, as both by his articles by him recāted may appeare, and also by his owne letter sent a litle

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before in kyng Edwardes dayes, to the Archbyshop of Cant. from Scotland. Which letter I thought here to exhibite as a certeine preface before his owne Argumentes, or rather as a testimonie agaynst hym selfe. Wherby the reader may vnderstand how deuoutly he magnified thē and theyr doctrine a litle before, agaynst whom he now disputeth so busily. Read, I besech thee, hys Epistle, and iudge.

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¶ The true Copy of a certeine Epistle of Doct. Rich. Smith declaryng hys affection to the settyng forth of Gods sincere word.

MarginaliaA letter of D. Smyth to Doctor Cranmer Archbishop of Cant.MOst honorable, I commend me vnto your Lordshyp, doyng the same to vnderstand, that I wrote letters to your grace in Ianuary last, & the x. day of February, declaryng the causes of my sodayne and vnaduised departyng from your grace ouer the Sea, and desyryng your good Lordshyp of your charity toward them that repent their ill Actes, to forgeue me your selfe all that wrong I dyd towardes your grace, and to obtayne in writyng the kynges Maiesties pardon for me in all poyntes concernyng hys lawes: vpon the recept wherof I would returne agayne home, and within halfe an yeare (at the vttermost) afterward, write de Sacerdotum connubijs. &c. MarginaliaD. Smyth purposing to write for the mariage of priestes.a Latin booke that should be a iust satisfaction for any thing that I haue written agaynst the same, reliquaq; omnia dogmata vestra, tum demum libēter amplexurum, vbi Deus mentem meam, vt ea citra conscientiæ læsionem agnoscam, doceamq;. I wrote not this that I wāt any good lyuyng here, but bycause myne absence out of the Realme, is dishonour to the kynges hyghnes, and Realme, and bycause I must nedes, if I tary here a quarter of a yeare longer, wryte an aunswere to your graces booke of the Sacrament, and also a booke of common places agaynst all the doctrine set forth by the kynges Maiesty, which I cā not do with good conscience. Wherfore I besech your grace helpe me home, as soone as ye may conueniently, for Gods sake, and ye shall neuer I trust in God repent that fact.

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Ex vrbe diui Andreæ 14. Februarij Richar-
dus Smithæus.

And thus much touchyng the forenamed Doctour Richard Smith, beyng set here (as is said) to dispute agaynst Byshop Ridley. Who was brought now the next day after the Archb. to aunswere in the Diuinitie Schole. Agaynst whom also besides D. Smyth  

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In the edition of 1570, Foxe transposed a section of the first informant's eyewitness account of the disputations, summarising Ridley's disputation (see textual transposition 5). Foxed used this as an introduction to Ridley's narrative of his disputation.

disputed, MarginaliaDisputers agaynst D. Ridley.D. Weston, D. Tresham, D. Oglethorp, D. Glyn, D. Seton, D. Cole, M. Ward, M. Harpsfield, D. Watson, M. Pye, M. Hardyng, M. Curtop, M. Fecknam. To all them he aunswered very learnedly. He made a preface to these questions, but they would not let hym goe forth in it, but caused him to make an end of the same, and sayd it was blasphemy, and some sayd hee droue of the tyme in ambiguous thynges, nothyng to the purpose, and so they would not suffer hym to say his mynd. Doct. Smith could get nothyng at his hand: in somuch that other did take his Arguments, & prosecuted them. He shewed him selfe to be learned, and a great Clearke. They coulde bryng nothing, but he knew it as well as they.

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¶ The Disputation beginneth.  
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Weston's initial speech and Smith's proposing the three questions to be debated first appear in the 1570 edition (see textual variant 56). These were probably added from an account made by one of the notaries; it is probably the only aspect of this disputation for which Foxe did not rely on Ridley's account.

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West. Prolocutor. Good Christen people & brethrē, we haue begon this day our Schole, by Gods good speede I trust, & are entring into a cōtrouersie, wherof no question ought to be moued, cōcerning þe veritie of the body of our Lorde Iesu Christ in the Eucharist. Christ is true, which sayd the wordes. The words are true which he spake, yea truth it self that can not fayle. Let vs therfore pray vnto God to send downe vnto vs his holy spirite, whych is the true interpreter of hys worde: which may purge away errours, and geue that veritie may appeare. Let vs also aske leaue and libertie of the Church to permitte the truth receaued, to bee called this day in question, without any preiudice to the same. Your partes therfore shall be to implore the assistance of almighty God, to pray for the prosperitie of the Queenes Maiesty, & to geue vs quiet and attentiue eares. Now go to your questions.

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Doct.
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