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1670 [1632]

Quene Mary. The outrage of these disputatiōs. Cranmer, Ridley, & Latymer, condēned.

MarginaliaAn. 1554. Aprill.which you haue right learnedly satisifed: and now all thinges being done, after our forme and maner, wee wyll end this disputation, saying: In oppositum est sacra theologia. In oppositum est. &c.

¶ Thus ye haue heard in these foresayd disputations, about the holy supper of the Lord, the reasons and argumentes of the Doctors, the aunsweres and resolutions of the Bishops, and the triumph of the Prolocutor, triumphing before the victory: with Vicit veritas: who rather in my mynde should haue exclamed: Vicit potestas. As it happeneth alwayes, vbi pars maior vincit meliorem. For els of potestas had not helped the Prolocutor more then Veritas, there had bene a small victoria. But so it is, where iudgementes bee partiall, and parties be addicted, there all things turne to victory, though it be neuer so meane and simple, as in this disputation myght well appeare. For first of the Opponents part, neyther was there almost any argument in true moode and figure rightly framed: neyther could the aunsweres be permitted to say for themselues: and if they answered any thing, it was condemned before they began to speake. Agayne, such disturbance and confusion, more like a conspiration then any disputation, without all forme and order, was in the Schooles during the time of their aunswering, that neither could the aunswerers haue place to vtter theyr myndes, neyther would the Opponentes bee satisfied wyth any reason. Concerning the which disturbance of that misruled disputation, you shall heare what maister Ridley hym selfe reporteth by his own description in maner as followeth.

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¶ The report and narration of Master Ridley concerning the misordered disputation had aganst him and his fellowprisoners at Oxford. 
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Block 23: Letters and documents pertaining to the disputation

In the 1570 edition, rather than following the disputations with a digest of the arguments, Foxe moved Ridley's letter protesting about the conduct of the disputations from the beginning of Ridley's account of his disputation to the end of Foxe's account of all the disputations (textual transposition 17).

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In the Rerum and the 1563 edition, Foxe had printed all the material after Ridley's narrative of his disputation in the order in which it occurred in the manuscripts: first Ridley's prefatory letter (Rerum, pp. 659-61; 1563, pp. 956-58), followed by the disputation itself (Rerum, p. 661-95; 1563, p. 957-77), further followed by Ridley's letter to Weston (Rerum, p 695; 1563, p. 977) and a concluding letter addressed to the reader (Rerum, p. 696; 1563, p. 978).

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In later editions, Foxe transposed the sections of Ridley's account. Phrases were appended to Ridley's letter of protest in the 1570 edition which had not appeared in the Rerum or the 1563 edition (or in LM, pp. 76-78, where it was also printed; see textual variant 69). By this time, Foxe had several different manuscript copies of this letter - Harley 422, fol. 53r-v; Lansdowne 389, fols. 117v-118v and ECL 262, fols. 16r-17v - and it is possible that this new conclusions appears in one of these. Alternatively, it might have been invented by Foxe. Conversely, closing passages in Ridley's prefatory letter, which had served as a bridge between the letter and the account of his disputation, were omitted (see textual variant 70).

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Commentary on the Glosses  *  Close
Documents/letters of Ridley and Cranmer

This is a section consisting of letters written by Cranmer and Ridley and connecting text around the time of their separation and condemnation. Many of the glosses follow the texts in objecting to the conduct of the proceedings: haste, unfairness, unkept promises are all noted ('B. Ridleyes report of the misorder of this disputation', 'D. Ridley could not be suffered to read forth his protestation', 'Papistes haue small conscience in performing promises', 'The Archb. not suffered to aunswere fully to any argument' and 'Hast made in condemning the Archb. and hys fellowes'). The ill behaviour of the papists is also alluded to ('Tauntes and reuilinges vsed in this disputation'). Foxe's predilection for binaries is also in evidence: The gloss 'No veritie but glory sought for in this disputation' picks up on Ridley's contrast between the supposed object of the disputation (verity) and its actual one (glory), while the gloss reporting the condemnation of the three martyrs ('D. Cranmer Bishop Ridley and M. Latimer condemned') is immediately followed by one claiming that 'Weston geueth sentence against himselfe', thus showing the contrast between true and apparent guilt. Many of the glosses are factual, which is unsurprising given the transition from disputation to narrative that this passage marks (e.g. 'The Archb. and his fellow prisoners separated', 'Disputation in Cambridge intended'). For variations and errors between editions, see the gloss 'The 3. prisoners at Oxford called before the Commissioners. Aprill. 20.' (1570 more clearly positioned than later), 'Aprill. 13' (a mistake in all editions), and 'Disputation in Cambridge intēded, wherof read hereafter pag. 1639' (only 1570 bothers to give a reference).

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MarginaliaBysh. Ridleys report of the misorder of thys disputation.I Neuer yet sithens I was borne, saw, or heard, any thing done or handled more vainely or tumultuously, then the disputation which was with me in the Scholes at Oxforde. Yea verely I could neuer haue thought that it had bene possible to haue found amongst men recounted to be of knowledge and learning in this realme, any so brasen faced and shameles, so disorderly and vainly to behaue them selues, more like to stage players in Interludes, to set forth a Pageant, then to be graue diuines in Scholes to dispute. The Sorbonicall clamours (which at Paris I haue sene in time past whē poperie most raigned) might be worthely thought (in comparison of thys trasonicall ostentation) to haue had much modestie. And no great meruel, seyng they which should haue ben moderators and ouerseers of others, & which should haue geuen good ensample in wordes & grauitie: they them selues aboue all other gaue worst ensample, and dyd, as it were, blow the trompe to the rest, to raile, rore, rage, and cry out. By reason wherof (good Christian reader) manifestly it may appeare that they neuer sought for any truth or veritie, MarginaliaNot veritie but glory sought for in thys disputation.but onely for the glory of the world and their owne bragging victory. But lest by the innumerable railinges, and reprochefull tauntes, wherwyth I was baited on euery side, our cause, yea rather Gods cause & his churches, should be euel spokē of, & sclaūdred to the world through false reportes, and vntrue examples geuen out of our disputation, & so the verity might sustaine some dammage: I thought it no lesse then my dutie to write mine aunsweres, to the intent that who so euer is desirous to know the truth therof, may by this perceiue, aswell those things which were chiefly obiected, as summarely that which was aunswered of me vnto euery of them. Howbeit (good Reader) I confesse this to be most true, þt it is vnpossible to set forth eyther all that was (God knoweth) tumultuously and confusedly obiected of their partes being so many, speaking many times altogether so thicke that one could not wel heare an other, either all that was aunswered on my behalfe, to them so sondry and diuers Opponentes.

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Moreouer, a great part of the time appointed for the disputations was vainely consumed in opprobrious checkes, and reuiling tauntes, MarginaliaTauntes and reuilinges vsed in thys disputation.with hissings & clapping of handes, and that in the english tonge to procure the peoples fauour withall. All which things, when I with great griefe of hart did behold, protesting openly that

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such excessiue and outragious disorder, was vnsemely for those Scholes & men of learning & grauitie, & that they which were the doers and stirrers of such thnges, dyd nothing els but bewray the slendernes of their cause, and their owne vanities: I was so far of by this my humble complainte from doing any good at all, that I was enforced to heare such rebukes, checkes, and tauntes for my labour, as no person of any honesty without blusshing could abide to heare the like spoken of a most vyle varlet, against a most wretched ruffian.

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At the first beginning of the disputation, when I should haue confirmed mine aūswere to the first proposition in few wordes, and that (after the maner and law of Scholes) afore I could make an end of my first probatiō, which was not very long, euē þe Doctours thēselues, cryed out, he speaketh blasphemies, he speaketh basphemies. MarginaliaD. Ridley could not be suffered to read forth hys protestation.And when I on my knees besought them & that hartely, that they would vouchsafe to heare me to þe end, (wherat the Prolocutor being moued, cried out on hie, let him read it, let him read it) yet when I began to read it againe, there followed immediatly such shouting, such a noyse and tumult, and confusion of voyces, crying, blasphemies, blasphemies, as I to my remembraunce, neuer heard or read the lyke: except it be that one which was in the Actes of the Apostles, stirred vp of Demetrius the siluer Smith and other of his occupation, crying out against Paul, great is Diana of þe Ephesians, great is Diana of the Ephesians: and except it be a certain disputatiō which the Arrians had agaynst the Orthodoxes, & such as were of godly iudgemēt in Aphrica, where it is sayd, that such as the President and rulers of the disputation were, such was the end of the disputations. All were in a hurlie burlie, and so great were the sclaūders which the Arrians cast out, that nothing could quietly be heard. This writeth Victor in the second booke of his history.

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The which cries and tumults of them agaynst me so preuailed, that wild I nild I, I was enforced to leaue of the reading of my probations, although they were short. If any man doubt of the truth hereof, let the same aske any one that was there, and not vtterlye peruerted in Popery: and I am assured hee wyll saye I speake the least. But to complayne of these thinges further, I wyll ceasse.

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And further speaking of this disputation, he concludeth with these wordes: And thus was ended thys most glorious disputation of the most holy fathers, sacrificers, Doctours, and Maisters, which fought most manfully (as ye may see) for their God and goods, for their fayth and felicitie, for their countrey and kitchin, for their beautie and bellie, with triumphant applauses and fauour of the whole Vniuersitie.

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After the disputation of Maister Latimer ended, 

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Foxe transposed a description of the condemnation of Cranmer, Ridley and Latimer from the first informant's account of the Oxford disputations (see textual transposition 6). These passages first appeared in the Rerum (pp. 704-05), demonstrating that Foxe had obtained the first informant's account while he was in exile. The description of the procession and of Latimer's reaction to it is particularly interesting. The identification of 'Augustine Cooper' (see 'Augustine Kyrke' - "Personal Identifications") as a catchpole was accurate and confirms the accuracy of the first informant and his status as an eyewitness.

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which was the. 18. day of Aprill, the Friday folowing MarginaliaThe 3. prisoners at Oxford called before the Cōmissioners. Aprill. 20. which was the. 20. day of the sayd moneth, the Commissioners satte in S. Maries Church, as they dyd the Saterday before, and Doctor Weston vsed particularly dissuasions with euery of them, and would not suffer them to aunswere in any wyse, but directly and peremptorily (as hys wordes were) to say whether they would subscribe, or no. And first to the Bishop of Canterbury, hee sayd hee was ouercome in disputations: whom the Bishop aunswered, that where as Doctour Weston sayd he had aunswered and opposed, and could neyther maintayne his own errours, nor impugne the veritie, all that he sayd was false. For he was not suffred to oppose as he would, nor could aunswere as he was required, vnlesse he would haue brauled with thē, so thycke their reasons came one after an other. Euer 4. or 5. did interrupt him, that hee coulde not speake. Maister Ridley & Maister Latimer, were asked what they would doe, they sayd they would stand to that they had sayd: MarginaliaDoctour Cranmer, B. Ridley, & Maister Latymer, cōdemned.then were they all called together, and sentence read ouer them, that they were no members of the church. And therefore they, their fautours, and patrones were condemned as heretickes: and in reading of it, they were asked whether they would turne or no, and they bad them read on in the name of God, for they were not mynded to turne. So were they condemned all three.

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