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William Pye
 
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William Pye

(d. 1557)

D.D., Archdeacon of Berkshire (1547 - 1557); dean of Chichester (1553 - 1557) (Fasti, Foster )

Pye gave an oration at the beginning of the 1553 convocation (1570, p. 1571; 1576, p. 1340; and 1583, p. 1410).

He objected to Philpot?s arguments against transubstantiation and prevailed upon Hugh Weston, the prolocutor of the 1553 convocation, to silence Philpot (1563, p. 911; 1570, p. 1575; 1576, p. 1344; 1583, p. 1414).

He was appointed as one of the official disputants at the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932 and 936; 1570, p. 1592; 1576, p. 1358; 1583, p. 1428-29).

Pye was one of the catholic disputants in the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932, 936, 938, 953, 959, 977, 983 and 985; 1570, pp. 1592-93, 1604, 1608, 1622 and 1626-27; 1576, pp. 1358-59, 1368, 1372, 1383 and 1387-88; 1583, pp. 1429-30, 1439, 1443, 1454 and 1458-59).

[NB: A brief account of the Oxford disputations of 1554, which was only printed in 1563, lists Pye as one of those who disputed with Cranmer (1563, p. 933-34). This account also mentions a ?maister Price?, citing canon law against Cranmer (1563, p. 933) and disputing with Ridley (1563, p. 934). ?Price? may very well be a mistake for Pye.]

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[Also referred to as 'Price' and 'Pie']

1463 [1439]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Doctor Cranmer Archb. of Canterbury at Oxford.

rest. When it commeth, that the reuerent Sacrament must be made, then the Priest vseth not his own words, but the wordes of Christ: therfore the word of Christe maketh this Sacrament. What word? That word, by which all things were made, The Lorde Marginalia* But the Lord Iesus here vsed not such words of commaūding in the sacrament as in creatiō: for we read not, fiat, hoc corpus meū as we read, fiat lux. &c.* commaunded, and heauen was made: the Lord commmaunded and the earth was made: the Lord commanded, and the seas were made. the Lord commaunded, and all creatures were made. Doest thou not see then how strong in working the woorde of Christe is? If therfore, so great strength be in the Lords word, that those things shuld begin to be which were not before, how much the rather is it of strength to worke, þt these thinges which were, shoulde be chaunged into an other thing? Ambrose sayth that the wordes are of strength to worke.

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Commentary  *  Close

In the Rerum, (p. 654) and 1563 (p. 933), Foxe identifies Cranmer as saying 'you omitte these thinges which followe, which make the sense of Ambrose plain, reade them'. In subsequent editions Weston is (correctly) identified as the speaker (1570, p. 1603; 1576, p. 1368; 1583, p. 1439).

Weston. You omit those wordes which follow, whych maketh the sence of Ambrose plaine. Read them.

Young. MarginaliaAmbros. de Sacr. cap. 5. Cœlum non erat, mare non erat, terra non erat.  

Latin/Greek Translations  *  Close
St. Augustine, Epistolae CXIII, 1. (?)
Foxe text Latin

quod vnus locus per plura intelligi debeat

Foxe text translation

that one place of the scripture ought to be vnderstand by the mo. [sic].

Actual text of St. Augustine

Hoc enim quibusdam Scripturae illius locis apertissime expressum admonet, etiam ubi non dictum est, quid intelligi debeat.

[Is this a paraphrase of this passage from a letter of Augustine to Marcellinus?]

Sed audi dicentem: ipse dixit & facta sunt, ipse mandauit & creata sunt. Ergo tibi vt respondeam, non erat corpus Christi ante consecrationem, sed post consecrationem dico tibi quòd iam Marginalia* Alloiosis rerū & symbolorū. * corpus Christi est.  
Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, 464, fn 1

Amb. de Sacram. lib. iv. cap. 4.

That is. Heauen was not, the sea was not, the earth was not, but heare him that said: he spake the worde and they were made: he commaunded, and they were created. Therfore to answer thee, it was not the body of Christ before consecration, but after the cōsecration I say to thee, that now it is the body of Christ.

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Cran. All these thinges are common. I say that God doth chiefly worke in the Sacramentes.

Yong. How doth he worke?

Cran. By his power as he doth in Baptisme.

Yong. Nay, by the worde he chaungeth the bread into hys body, This is the truth, acknowledge the truth, geue place to the trueth.

Cran. O glorious wordes, you are too full of wordes.

Yong. Nay O glorious trueth, you make no change at all.

Cran. Not so, but I make a great chaunge, as in them that are baptised, is there not a great chaunge when the child of the bondslaue of the deuil, is made the sonne of God? So it is also in the sacrament of the supper when he receyueth vs into his protection and fauour.

Yong. If he worke in the sacraments, he worketh in thys sacrament.

Cran. God woorketh in his Faithfull, not in the Sacraments.

West. In the supper the words are directed to the breade: in baptisme to the spiritc. He sayd not, the water is the spirite, but of the bread he sayd: This is my body.

MarginaliaAs the Doue is called the spirit: so the bread is called the body. Cran. He called the spirit a Doue: when the spirit descended in likenesse of a Doue. 

Commentary  *  Close

The Rerum reads 'columbum vocat spiritum, cum spiritus descenderet in specie columbae' (Rerum, p. 655). Someone with an uncertain grasp of both theology and Latin translated this as 'he called the dove the spirit, when the spirit descended in lykeness of a dove' (1563, p. 953). In later editions, this was corrected to 'he calleth the spirit a Dove, when the spirite descended in likeness of a Dove' (1570, p. 1604; 1576, p. 1368; 1583, p. 1439). This is a recurring issue in the 1570 edition: the need to correct faulty Latin translations made in the 1563 edition.

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West. He doth not call the spirit a Doue: but he sayth, that he descended as a Doue. He was seene in the likenesse of a Doue. As in Baptisme, the words are directed to him that is baptized, so in the supper the woordes are directed vnto the bread. 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 464, line 29

In the Cambridge MS. this answer is attributed to Cole, and the following argument from Ambrose to Weston.

Cran. Nay it is wrytten: Vpon whomesouer thou shalt see the spirite descending. MarginaliaIohn. 1.Hee calleth that whych descended, the holy spirit. And Augustine calleth the doue the spirit. Heare what Augustine sayth in 1. Iohn. Quid voluit per columbam, id est, per spiritum sanctū, docere, qui miserat eum. MarginaliaAugust. in. Iohn. cap. 1. That is: What meant he by the Doue, that is, by the holy Ghost? forsoothe to teach who sent him.

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Yong. He vnderstandeth of the spirit descending as a doue: the spirit is inuisible. If you minde to haue the truth heard let vs proceede. Heare what Ambrose saith: Vides quam operatorius sit sermo Christi. Si ergo tanta vis in sermone domini. &c. vt supra. MarginaliaAmbrose againe repeated, de Sacrament. cap. 4.That is: You see what a working power the word of Christe hath.  

Commentary  *  Close

In the edition of 1563, no translation was provided for the sentence 'Vides quam sit sermo Christi' (1563, p. 953). A sentence translating this as 'You see what a working power the word of Christ hath' was added in the 1570 edition (see textual variant 53).

Therefore if there be so great power in the Lordes woorde, that those thinges whiche were not, begin to be, howe much more of strength is it to worke that those things that were, should be chaunged into an other thing?

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And in the 5. chap. Antequam consecretur, panis est: vbi autem verba Christi accesserint, corpus est Christi. i. MarginaliaIdem. cap. 5.Before it is consecrated, it is bread: but when the words of Christ come to it, it is the body of Christ.

But hear what he sayth more: Accipite, edite, hoc est corpus meum: Take yee, eate yee, this is my bodye. Ante verba Christi calix est vini & aquæ plenus: vbi verba Christi operata fuerint, ibi sanguis efficitur, qui redemit plebem.  

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, 464, fn 6

Idem, lib. iv cap. 5.

That is.

Before the wordes of Christe, the cuppe is full of wine and water, when the words of Christ haue wrought, there is made the bloude of Christe, which redeemed the people. What can be more plaine?

MarginaliaAunswere to Ambrose. Cran. Nay, what can be lesse to the purpose? The wordes are of strength to worke in this Sacrament, as they are in Baptisme.

Pie. The wordes of Christ (as Amb. sayth) are of strength to worke. What do they worke? Ambrose sayeth, they make the bloud which redeemed the people.

Ergo, the naturall bloud is made.

Cran. The Sacrament of his bloud is made. The wordes make the bloude to them that receiue it: not that the bloude is in the cuppe, but in the receiuer.

Pie. There is made the bloud which redeemed the people.

Cran. The bloude is made: that is, the Sacrament of the bloude, by which he redeemed the people. [Fit) it is made: that is to say [ostenditur] it is shewed forth there. And Ambrose sayth: we receiue it in a similitude. As thou has receiued the similitude of his death, so also thou drinkest the similitude of his precious blood.  

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 465 , line 7

"Fit sanguis, id est, ostenditur sanguis. Ex hoc responso orta sunt sibila." (Cambridge MS.)

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West. He sayth in a similitude, because it is ministred vnder another likenesse. MarginaliaMarke how D. Weston expoundeth to eate in a similitude.And this is the argument.

Marginalia* If this Syllogisme be in the 2. figure (as by standing of the termes appeareth) then is it false, because it concludeth affirmatiuely.* There is made the bloud which redeemed the people.

But the naturall bloud redeemed the people.

Ergo, There is the naturall bloud of Christ.

You aunswer, that wordes make it bloud to them that receiue it: not that bloude is in the cuppe, but because it is made bloud to them that receiue it. That all men maye see how falsely you would auoid the fathers, heare what Ambrose sayth in the 6. booke and 1. chap.

Forte dicas, quomodo vera? quia similitudinem video, nō video sanguinis veritatem. Primum omnium dixi tibi de sermone Christi qui operatur, vt possit mutare & conuertere genera instituta naturæ. Deinde vbi non tulerunt sermonem discipuli eius, sed audientes, quod carnem suam dedit manducari, & sanguinem suum dedit bibendum, recedebant. Solus tamen Petrus dixit: Verba vitæ eternæ habes. & ego a te quò recedam? Ne igitur plures hoc dicerent, veluti quidam esset horror cruoris, sed maneret gratia redemptionis, ideò in similitudinem quidem accipis sacramentū, sed verè naturæ gratiam virtutemque consequeris. MarginaliaAmbr. lib. 6. cap. 1. de sacramentis. Operari. Mutare. Conuertere.

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That is to say.

Peraduenture thou wilt say, how be they true? I which see the similitude, do not see the trueth of the bloud. First of all I told thee of þe word of Christ, which so worketh, that it can chaunge & turne kindes ordained of nature. Afterward, when the Disciples coulde not abide the woordes of Christe, but hearing that he gaue hys flesh to eate, and hys bloud to drinke, they departed: Only Peter sayd, thou hast the wordes of eternal life: whether should I go from thee? Least therefore moe should say this thing, as though there should be a certain horror of bloud, and yet the grace of redemption should remaine: therfore in a similitude thou receiuest the sacrament: but in deede thou obtainest the grace and power of his nature.

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MarginaliaAunswere to Ambrose Cranmer. These wordes of themselues are plaine enough. (And he read this place againe: Thou receiuest the Sacrament for a similitude) But what is that he sayth: Thou receiuest for a similitude.) I thinke he vnderstandeth the sacrament to be the similitude of his bloud. 

Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 465, line 32

The Cambridge MS. here adds, "West. Are ye not weary? Cran. No, sir."

Ched. That you 

Commentary  *  Close

Chedsey addressed Cranmer as 'dominatio tua' in the Rerum (p. 656) and 'your Lordship' in 1563 (p. 954); this is changed to 'you' in 1570, p. 1604; 1576, p. 1369; 1583, p. 1439. Here Foxe again changes the text to make the catholics appear more rude and more disrespectful to Cranmer.

may vnderstand that trueth discenteth not from trueth, to ouerthrow that which you say of that similitude, heare what Ambrose sayth lib. 4. De sacrament.

Si operatus est sermo cœlestis in alijs rebus, non operatur in sacramentis cœlestibus? Ergo didicisti quod e pane corpus fiat Christi, & quod vinum & aqua in calicem mittitur. sed fit sanguis consecratione verbi cœlestis. Sed forte dices, speciem sanguinis non videri. Sed habet similitudinem. Sicut enim mortis similitudinem sumpsisti, ita etiam similitudinem preciosi sanguinis bibis, vt nullus horror cruoris sit, & pretium tamen operetur redemptionis. Didicisti ergo, quia quod accipis corpus est Christi. MarginaliaAmbros. de sacram. lib. 4.

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That is to say.

If the heauenly word did worke in other things, doth it not worke in the heauenly sacramentes? Therefore thou hast learned, that of bread is made the body of Christe, and that wine and water is put into that cuppe: but by consecration of the heauenly worde, it is made bloude. But thou wilt say peraduēture, that the likenes of bloud is not sene. But it hath a similitude.

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For as thou hast receiued the similitude of hys death, so also thou drinkest the similitude of his precious bloud, MarginaliaNote that Ambrose sayth: we drinke a similitude of Christes bloud.so þt there is no horror of bloud, & yet it worketh the price of redemptiō. Therfore thou hast learned, that that which thou receiuest, is the body of Christ.

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MarginaliaAnswere to the place of Ambrose. Sacramētes be called by the name of the things. Cran. He speaketh of sacraments sacramentally. He calleth the sacraments by the names of the things: for he vseth the signes for the things signified: and therefore þe bread is not called bread, but his body, for the excellencie and dignitie of the thyng signified by it. So doth Ambrose interpreat hym selfe when hee sayeth: In cuius typum nos calicem mysticum sanguinis ad tuitionem corporis & animæ nostræ percepimus. 1. Cor. 11. MarginaliaAmbros. in 1. Cor. ca. 11That is.

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For a type or figure wherof we receiue the mystical cup of his bloud, for the safegard of our bodies and soules.

Ched. A type? hee calleth not the bloud of Christe a type or signe: but the bloude of Buls and Goates in that respecte was a type or signe.

Cran.
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