Christ lyueth not by his father only in vnitie of will, but naturally,

Ergo we do not liue when we eate the flesh of Christe, onely by faithe and vnitie of wyll, but naturally.

Cran. This is my faith, and it agreeth with the scripture. Christe lyueth by his father naturally, and maketh vs to lyue by hym selfe in deede, naturally, and that not onely in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, but also in baptisme. For infantes, when they are baptysed, doo eate the fleshe of Christe.

VVes. Aunswere other to the whole argument, or to the partes. For this argument is stronge and can not be dissolued.

Cran. As Christe lyueth by his father, after the saue maner do we lyue by his fleshe, being eaten of vs,

But Christe lyueth not by his Father only in vnitie of wyll but naturally:

Ergo we eatyng his fleshe, do not lyue only by faythe and loue, but naturally.

But the Maior is false, namely that by the same maner we lyue by Christe, as he lyueth by his father.

VVes. Hillarie sayeth, after the same maner, these be his wordes:

And he that eateth my fleshe, shal lyue by me,

Ergo Christ lyueth by his father,

And as he lyueth by his father, after the same maner we shall lyue by his fleshe.

These be his woordes, here you see, that Hillarie sayeth, after the same manner.

Cran. After the same maner, doth not signifie, in all thynges, but in dead and eternally, for so doo we lyue by Christe, and Christe lyueth by his father, for in other respects Christ lyueth otherwyse by his father, then we lyue by Christe.

VVest. He lyueth by his father naturally & eternally:

Ergo we lyue by Christe naturally and eternally.

Cran. We doe not lyue naturally, but by grace, if you meane by the manner of nature. As Christe hath eternall lyfe of his father so haue we of him.

VVest. I sticke to this worde, MarginaliaNaturally. naturally.

Cran. I meane touchinge the truthe of nature. For Christe lyueth otherwyse by hys father, then we lyue by Christe.

VVest. Hillarie in the viii. booke De Trinitate, denyeth it, when he sayeth, he lyueth ther fore by his father, and as he lyueth by his father, after the same maner we shall lyue by his fleshe.

Cran. We shall lyue after the same manner, as concernyng the nature of the fleshe of Christe: for as he hath of his father the nature of eternitie, so haue we of hym.

VVest. Aunswere vnto the p rtes o the ar

gument: As Christe lyueth by his father, after the same manner shall we lyue by his fleshe,

But Christ doth not liue by his father only in vnitie of wyll but naturally.

Ergo we eating his fleshe, do not lyue only by fayth and loue, but naturally.

Cran. I graunt, as I sayd, we liue by Christ naturallye: but I neuer heard, that Christe lyueth with his father in vnitie of wyll.

VVest. Because it semeth a maruaill vnto you, heare what Hillarie sayeth. These things are recited of vs to this ende, because the heretikes, lying, did vse thexample of our vnitie of will only to God, betwene the father and the sonne, as though that to vs, that are vnited to the sonne, and by the sonne vnto the father, only by obedience and will of religion, should be geuen no propertie of naturall fellowship by the sacrament of his flesh and bloud.

But answere to the argument, Christe lyueth by his father naturally & eternally, ther fore do we liue by Christ naturally & eternally

Cran. Cyrill & Hillarie do say, MarginaliaEx exēl. manu Crāmerii descripti.that Christ is vnited to vs not only by will but also by nature. He doth communicate to vs his own nature. And so is Christe made one with vs carnally and corporally, because he tooke our nature of þ^e virgin Marie. And Hillarie doth not only saye that Christe is naturally in vs, but that we also are naturally in hym, and in the father: that is, that we are partakers of their nature, whiche is eternitie or euerlastingnes. For as þ^e word receiuing our nature, did ioyne it vnto him selfe in vnitie of persone, and dyd cōmunicate vnto that our nature the nature of his eternitie, that like as he, being the euerlasting word of the father, had euerlasting life of the father, euen so he gaue the same nature to his flesh: Likewyse also did he cōmunicate with vs the same nature of eternitie, whiche he and the father hath, and that we should bee one with them, not onely in will and loue, but that we should be also partakers of the nature of euerlasting lyfe. 

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The entire passage by Cranmer: 'He doth communicate to us his own nature ... but that we should be also partakers of the nature of everlasting life' is not in the Rerum. It was introduced in the 1563 edition with a note saying 'Ex exempl. manu Cranmeri descripto' (1563, p. 950; 1570, p. 1602; 1576, pp. 1366-67; 1583, p. 1437). Clearly these passages were inserted into the account of the debate from a written statement by Cranmer which Foxe obtained between 1559 and 1563. It is possible that this was the copy of Cranmer's account which Grindal had obtained. It is also possible, however, that this was a statement Cranmer submitted to Weston, and was taken by Foxe from the Convocation records which he had asked Grindal to obtain for him.

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VVest. Hillarie where he sayth: Christ communicated to vs his nature, he meaneth that, not by his natiuitie, but by the sacrament.

Cran. He hath cōmunicated to vs his flesh, by his natiuitie.

VVest. We haue communicated to him our fleshe when he was borne.

Cran. Nay, he cōmunicated to vs his flesh in being borne, and that I wil shew you out of Cyrill vpon this place, Et homo factus est.

VVest. Ergo Christe in beinge borne, gaue vs his fleshe.

Cran. In his natiuitie, he made vs partakers of his fleshe.

VVest. Wryte syrs. 

Commentary    Close

Weston's words 'write sirs' (1563, p. 950; 1570, p. 1602; 1576, p. 1367; 1583, p. 1437) was a command to the notaries which at least one of them transcribed. Its appearance in the Rerum, as the imperative 'scribite', is another sign that the Rerum version of the disputation came from a notary's account.

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Cran. Wryte syrs.