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1653 [1615]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Doct. Ridley late Byshop of Lond. at Oxford.

Marginalia1554. Aprill.nicate hym, not onely Sacramentally with the hand of the body, but much more holesomly with the hād of the hart, and by inward drynkyng he is receyued: but by the Sacramentall signification he is holden of all men.

Seton. Where is then the miracle if he bee onely present through his grace, and in mystery onely?

Ryd. Yes there is a miracle, good Syr. Christ is not idle in his Sacramentes. MarginaliaThe miracle in the Sacramēt wherin it consisteth.Is not the miracle great (trow you) when bread, which is wont to susteyne the body, becommeth fode to the soule? He that vnderstandeth not that miracle, he vnderstandeth not the force of that mystery. God graunt we may euery one of vs vnderstand his truth, and obey the same.

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Smith. Chrysostome calleth it a miracle, that Christ sitteth at the right hand of God in heauen, and at the same tyme is held in the handes of men: not that he is handled with the hādes of men onely in a mystery, and is with them through grace. Therfore while you deny that, you are altogether deceiued, and stray farre from the truth.

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Harps. The former place of Chrysostome is not to be let slyppe. Let me, before I begin, aske this one questiō of you. Is it not a great matter that Elias left his cloake or mantell, and the gift of prophecie to his Scholer?

Ryd. Yes surely, it is a great matter.

Harps. Did not Elias then leaue great grace?

Ryd. He did so.

Harps. But Christ left a farre greater grace then Helias: for hee could not both leaue his cloke and take it with hym: Christ doth both in his flesh.

Ryd. I am well content to graunt, that Christ left much greater thynges to vs, then Helias to Eliseus, albeit he be sayd to haue left his double spirite with him: for that the strength and grace of the body of Christ, which Christ ascēdyng vp, here left with vs, MarginaliaHow Christ toke vp hys body, and left it with the onely saluation & life of all them which shalbe saued: which lyfe Christ hath here left vnto vs, to be receiued by fayth through the hearyng of the word, and the ryght administration of the Sacramentes. This vertue and grace Chrysostome, MarginaliaThe phrase of Chrysost. cōsidered. after the phrase & maner of Iohn the Euangelist, calleth Christes flesh.

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Harps. But Christ performed a greater matter. He caried vp and left behynd. You vnderstand not the cōparison. MarginaliaComparison betwen Elias mantell, & Christes flesh.The comparison is in this, that Elias left hys mantell, & caryed it not with hym: Christ left hys flesh behynd hym, and caryed it with hym also.

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Ryd. True it is, and I my selfe did affirme no lesse before. Now where you seeme to speake many thynges, in deede you bryng no new thyng at all. Let there be a comparison betwene grace and grace, MarginaliaElias tooke hys mantell, & left neyther mantell nor sacrament of his mantell behinde him. Christ tooke hys flesh and left a Sacrament of hys flesh, which was more then Elias dyd: and yet the sayd Elias afterward cast downe hys mantell.and then Christ gaue the farre greater grace, when he dyd inserte or graffe vs into hys flesh.

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Harps. If you wil geue me leaue, I will aske you this question. If Chrysostome would haue ment so, that Christ left his body in the Eucharist, what playner wordes thincke you, or more euident could he haue vsed then these?

Ryd. These thynges be not of so great force as they beare a great shew outwardly. He might also haue vsed grosser wordes if he had listed to haue vttered his mind so grosly: for he was an eloquent man. Now he speaketh after the maner of other Doctours, which of mysticall matters speake mystically, and of Sacramentes sacramentally.

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Harps. The cōparison lyeth in this: That which was impossible to Elias, is possible to Christ.

Ryd. I graunt. It was possible to Christ, which was to the other impossible. Helias left his cloke: Christ both left his flesh and tooke it with hym.

Harps. Helias left behynd hym, and could not take with hym: Christ both left behynd hym, and also tooke with hym. Except you will say: the comparison here made to be nothyng.

MarginaliaHarpsfield aunswered.Ryd. He tooke vp his flesh with hym to heauen, and left here the communion of his flesh in earth.

West. You vnderstand in the first place hys flesh for very true flesh: and in the second place for grace, and cōmunion of hys flesh: and why do you not vnderstand it in þe second place also for hys true flesh? I wil make it euident, MarginaliaQuam sit Stupida & crassa responsio blockysh and grosse your aunswere is.

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Ryd. These be tauntes and reproches, not besemyng (as I thinke) the modesty of this Schole.

West. Elias left hys cloake to his disciple: but þe sonne of God, goyng vp to heauen, left his flesh. But Elias certaynly left hys cloake behynd, and Christ lykewise hys flesh, and yet ascendyng he caryed the same with hym to. By which wordes we make this reason.

MarginaliaArgument.Christ left hys flesh to his Disciples, and yet for all that he tooke the same vp with hym.

Ergo, he is present here with vs.

MarginaliaD. Weston speaking to the audience in English.Here Doct. Weston crying to the people, sayd vnto them: Maister Doct. aunswereth it after this fashion:

He caried his flesh into heauen, and he left here the communion of hys flesh behynd. Assuredly the aunswere is too vnlearned.

Ryd. I am glad you speake in English. Surely I wish that all the whole world might vnderstād your reasons and my aunsweres. Reliquit nobis carnem suam. i. He left vs hys flesh. Thys you vnderstand of hys flesh, and I vnderstand the same of grace. He caryed hys flesh into heauen, and left behinde the communion of hys flesh vnto vs.

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West. Ye Iudges, what thinke you of this aunswere?

MarginaliaBut where were these Iudges in K. Edwardes tyme?Iudges. It is ridiculous and a very fond aunswere. 

Commentary  *  Close

The remark of one of the judges to one of Ridley's answers was changed from 'It is an answere to be laughed at, and a very fond aunswere' (1563, p. 968) to 'It is ridiculous and a very fond aunsweare' (1570, p. 1615; 1576, p. 1378; 1583, p. 1449). Possibly this is a variant version of what the judge said; possibly Foxe reworded this to make the narrative more dignified.

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Ryd. Well, I take your wordes paciētly for Christes cause.

West. Weston here citeth a place: Spargimur sanguine Christi: We are sprinckled with the bloud of Christ.

Ryd. Maister Doctor, it is þe same bloud, but yet spiritually receyued. And in deede all the Prophetes were sprinckled with þe same bloud, MarginaliaHow we are sprinckled with Christes bloud.but yet spiritually I say, and by grace. And what soeuer they bee that are not sprinckled with this bloud, they cā not be partakers of the euerlastyng saluation.

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West. * Marginalia* This he repeated in English to the people also. Here I bryng Bernard vnto you agayne. Euen from the West vnto the East, from the North vnto the South, there is one and the selfe same Christ in many and diuers places.

MarginaliaAunswer to Bernard.Ryd. The aunswere is soone made, that one Christ is here and in diuers places. For God accordyng to hys Maiesty, and accordyng to his prouidence, as S. Austen sayth, is euery where with the godly, accordyng to hys indiuisible and vnspeakable grace. Or els, if we should vnderstand Bernard according to the corporall presēce, how MarginaliaThe Papistes make Christ to haue a monstrous body.monstrous or huge, and gyantlike a body would you then make Christes body to be, which should reach euen from North to South, from West to East.

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West. Nay, nay, you make a monstrous aunswere and vnlearned.

MarginaliaHere they returne againe to Latin.Ward. Before I come in with those reasons which I had purposed to bryng agaynst you, I am minded to come agayne to Maister Doctours Argumēt, by which you beyng brought into the briers, semed to doubt of Christes presence on the earth. To the proufe of which matter I will bryng nothyng els, then that which was agreed vpon in the Catechisme of the Synode of London MarginaliaBysh. Ridley falsely charged to set forth the Catechisme.set out not long ago by you.

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Ryd. Syr, I geue you to witte, before you go any far.ther, that I dyd set out no Catechisme.

West. Yes, you made me subscribe to it MarginaliaD. Weston in Kyng Edwardes dayes subscribed. when you were a Byshop in your ruffe.

Ryd. I compelled no man to subscribe.

Warde. Yes by roode, you are the very authour of that heresie.

Ryd. I put forth no Catechisme.

Cole. Did you neuer consent to þe setting out of those thinges, which you allowed?

Rid. I graunt that I saw the booke. MarginaliaOf thys Catechisme read before pag. 1590. But I deny that I wrote it. I perused it after it was made, and I noted many thinges for it. So I consented to the booke:

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