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1355 [1354]

Queene Mary. A fruitfull Dialogue betwene Custome and Truth.

MarginaliaAnno. 1552. Cust. Mary 

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'Marie': contraction of a mild oath - 'by Saint Mary'.

and so they do. For Paule sayth playnly that they receiue the body of Christ to their owne confusion.

MarginaliaThe wicked receiue not the body of Christ. Veri. No not so. These are not Paules woordes, but he sayth: who so eateth of this bread, and drincketh of this cuppe vnworthely, eateth and drincketh his owne condemnation, not iudgyng the body of the Lord. Here he calleth it in playne wordes bread. And although the Sacrament be very bread, yet doth the iniurie redounde to the body of Christ. As if a man breake the kinges Mace, or tread the broad Seale vnder his foote, although he haue broken and defaced nothyng but siluer and waxe. Yet is the iniurie the Kynges, and the doer shall be taken as a Traytour. Saint Ambrose declareth the meanyng of Saint Paule by these woordes. Reus est corporis Domini, quia pænas dabit mortis Christi, quoniam irritam fecit mortem Domini. MarginaliaAmbrosius. The cause of the ordinaunce thereof was the remembraunce of the death of Christ, which who so forgetteth, receiueth the Sacrament to their condemnation. That same witnesseth S. Augustine. For the Sacrament, sayth he, is an outward token of loue and charitie. For like as many graynes of corne are become one p ece of bread, euen so they that receiue it ought to be one. Then sayth he. Mysterium pacis ac vnitatis nobis Christus in mensa sua consecrauit. Qui accepit mysterium vnitatis, & nō seruat vnitatem, non mysteriū accepit pro se, sed testimonium contra se. MarginaliaAugustinus.
The place of S. Paul, of receauing vnworthely, expounded.
He that readeth the Gospell wherein is declared the passion and death of Christ, and lyueth contrary to þe Gospel, shall doubtlesse be the more giltie of the death of Christ, because hee heareth and readeth the word of God, and regardeth it not. In a certaine countrey the maner is, that when the Gospell is read, the kyng shall stand vp with a naked sword in his hand, declaryng thereby that he beareth his sword in defence of the Gospell. But if he himselfe oppresseth the Gospell, he beareth the sword agaynst himselfe, for the Gospell shall turne to his iudgemēt, and condemnation. So will Christ so much more extremely punishe a man whiche knowyng him selfe to bee wicked and without repentaunce and therefore none of the flocke of Christ, yet notwithstandyng will impudently creepe into the company of Christian men, & receiue the Sacramentes with them, as though he were one of the nomber. And this ment S. Paule by the vnworthy receiuyng of the Sacrament of Christes body. Wherefore a man may vnworthely take the Sacrament, and be gilty of the death of Christ, although he receiue not Christes body into his mouth, and chawe it with his teeth. But what if I proue that euery Massing Priest is giltie of the body and bloud of Christ?

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Cust. I dare say, you can not proue it.

Veri. But if I do proue it, will you beleue me?

Cust. I may well inough, for it is impossible to do it. For Priestes commonly are confessed before they go to Masse: and how can they then take the Sacrament vnworthely?

MarginaliaConfession. Veri. In deede confession, if it be discretely vsed, is a laudable custome, and to the vnlearned man, and feeble conscience so good as a Sermon. But notwithstandyng because it was, neuer neither commaunded of Christ, nor receiued of the Apostles, nor much spoken of the old Doctours, it can not make much for the due receiuing of the Sacramēt 

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An aside against the Catholic Sacrament of Confession; Protestants denied that it was instituted by Christ and was thus not a Sacrament. Catholics believed that it was instituted when the Risen Christ commanded the apostles to bind and loose sins (see John 20:21-23).

. But how like you these woordes of S. Ambrose? Is indigne sumit, qui aliter sumit, quam Christus instituit. i. MarginaliaAmbrosius. He taketh it vnworthely, that taketh it otherwise thē Christ ordeined it.

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Custome. This liketh me very well. But what gather you of it?

Veri. This will I gather. The Massyng Priest taketh the Sacrament otherwise then Christ either commaunded or taught: Ergo he taketh it vnworthely, and so consequently to his condemnation.

Cust. That is not so, for he doth altogether as Christ commaunded hym.

MarginaliaThe Priest taketh the sacrament not as Christ ordayned it: Ergo the Priest taketh it vnworthely. Veri. That shall appeare. For Christ commaunded it to bee done in his remembraunce: the Priest doth it in remembraunce of dead men. Christ tooke bread, and left it bread: the Priest taketh bread and coniureth it away. Christ tooke bread and gaue thankes: the Priest taketh bread, and breatheth vppon it. Christ tooke bread, and brake it: the Priest taketh bread and hangeth it vppe. Christ tooke bread and delt to his Apostles: the Priest because hee is an Apostle hym selfe, taketh bread and eateth it euery whitte alone. Christ in a Sacrament gaue his owne body to bee eaten in fayth: the Priest for lacke of fayth receiueth accidences, and dimensions. Christ gaue a Sacramēt to strengthen mens fayth: the Priest geueth a sacrifice to redeeme mens soules. Christ gaue it to be eaten: the Priestes gyueth it to be worshypped. And to conclude, Christ gaue bread: the Priest sayth he giueth a God. MarginaliaDifference betwene Christes ordinance and the Priests receauing. Here is difference inough betwen Christ, and the Priest. Yet moreouer Christ at his Supper spake his wordes out and in a plaine toung: the Priest speaketh nothyng but Latin, or Greke, which tounges he oft tymes perceiueth not, and much he whispe-reth lest any other poore man should perhaps perceiue hym. So it commeth to passe that the Priest knoweth no more what he himselfe sayth, then what he doth. This you may see that the Massysng Priest receiueth the Sacrament of Christes body farre otherwise thē euer Christ mynded, & so therfore vnworthely and to his condemnation 

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Another aside in which Verity offers a series of objections to the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, some of them more caricatures of the doctrines than actual discussions of them. Many of them have also been raised in the disputations which Foxe has just related. Such objections include: offering masses for the intentions of the living and for the dead; reservation and worship of the Sacrament; the language in which the liturgy is prayed; the ritual of the mass.

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. Now if you thinke your selfe satisfied, I will returne to my former question, & proue more at large that Christes body cā not be eaten of the wicked, which thyng must necessarily ensue if the bread were turned into the body of Christ. Christ in the vj. of Iohn, speakyng of the eatyng of his body, sayth: He that eateth of this bread, shall liue for euer. MarginaliaIohn. 6. Wherof I gather thus: But sinnefull mē take the Sacramēt to their cōdemnation & lyue not for euer: Ergo, in the Sacrament they receiue not the body of Christ. Agayne, Christ sayth: He that eateth me, shall lyue for my sake. Hereof I cōclude thus: But impenitent persons can not lyue for Christes sake.

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Moreouer Christes bodye muste bee receiued and not with the mouth, as Gregory recordeth saying, MarginaliaGregorius. that it is eaten with the teeth of the soule, not of the body, as I haue aboue more largely declared. But wicked, and impenitent persons lacke fayth: Wherfore they can not eate the body of Christ. Agayne Christes body can not be deuided from his spirite, but wicked men haue not the spirite of God, Ergo, they haue not Christes body. Hereunto agreeth all the old writers affirmyng constauntly þt the vnfaythful bee no meete vessels to receiue the body of Christ. S. Augustine sayth: Qui non manet in Christo, & in quo nō manet Christus, procul dubio non manducat carnē Christi, nec bibit eius sanguinem, quāuis tantæ rei mysteriū ad iudiciū suū manducet, ac bibat. MarginaliaAugustinus. And in the person of Christ he sayth likewise: Qui non manet in me, & in quo ego non maneo, ne se dicat, aut existimet manducare corpus meū, aut sanguinem meum bibere. Ambrose auoweth the same, by these wordes: Qui discordat a Christo, nō māducat carnē eius, nec bibit sanguineē, etsi tantæ rei Sacramētū accipiat. MarginaliaAmbrosius. In like maner writeth Prosperus: Qui discordat a Christo, nec carnē Christi edit, nec sanguinem bibit, etsi tantæ rei Sancramētum, ad iudicium suæ præsumptionis quotidiè accipiat. MarginaliaProsperus. And therfore S. Augustine sayth: Mali Sacramentum habēt, rem autem Sacramenti non habent. MarginaliaAugustinus. Thus by the wordes of God, by reason, and by the olde fathers it is playne that sinnefull mē eate not the body of Christ, receiue they the Sacramēt neuer so oft: Which thyng could not be, if in the Sacrament there remayned nothyng but the body of Christ.

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MarginaliaThe Sacrament called breaking of bread. The Sacrament in the Scriptures is named Fractio panis, the breakyng of bread: whiche, to say the truth, were but a cold breakyng if there remayned no bread to breake, but certaine phantasies of white, and round. Yet where as they with wordes, crossynges, blessynges, breathynges, leapyngs, and much a do can scarcely make one God, they haue such vertue in their fingers, that at one crosse they be able to make. xx. Gods, for if they breake the Sacramēt euery portion, yea euery mite must needes be a God. After the Apostles tyme there arose vp heretickes 

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The heretics Verity describes are the Gnostics (from the Greek 'gnosis' - 'knowledge'), among the earliest and largest groups that denied elements of fundamental Christian belief; in this case, the incarnation: that God became a true human being in the person of Jesus.

which said that Christ walkyng here amongest mē bodily vpon the earth, had no very body, but a thyng like a body, and so therewith dimmed mens sight. Agaynst whom the old fathers vsed these argumentes: Christ increased in growyng, fasted, hungred, eate, wept, sweat, was weary, and in conclusion dyed, and had all other properties of a very body: wherfore he had a body. MarginaliaAgaynst transubstantiation. I will vse the same kynde of reasonyng. It feedeth, it tasteth like bread, it looketh like bread, the litle seely 
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'Sely': simple.

Mouse taketh it for bread, and to be short, it hath all the properties and tokens of bread: Ergo it is bread. The old Fathers, when there remayned any part of the Sacrament, more then was spent at the Communion, they vsed to burne it, and of it there came ashes. MarginaliaReasons prouing bread in the Sacrament. But there is nothyng in the Sacrament that can turne to ashes, but onely bread (for I thinke they burned not Christes body to ashes): Ergo in the Sacrament there remaineth bread. Henry the Emperour the. vj. of that name was poysoned in the hoste: and Victor the Byshop of Rome in the Chalice. But poyson can not hang in Gods body, and bloud: Wherefore there remayneth bread and wyne. What needeth many wordes in a matter so euident? If you demaunde either Gods word, or the Doctours and the auncient writers, or your reason, or your eyes, or nose, or toung, or fingers, or the Cat, or the Ape, or the Mouse, all these agree in one, and aunswere together there is bread: Wherefore if you reiect so many and so constant witnesses, and so well agreeyng in their tale, specially beyng such as wil lye for no mās pleasure, I wil appeale frō you, & take you as no indifferēt Iudge. If all these witnesses suffice you not, I will call the Sacramēt it selfe to record. It cryeth vnto you, & plainly doth aduertise you what you should thinke of it. I am, it sayth, grated wt the tooth: I am cōueied in to the belly: I perish: I cā endure no space: I canker: I suffer grene mould, blew mould, read mould:

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