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Andrew PerneWilliam Pye
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Andrew Perne

(1519? - 1589)

DD (1552). Vice-chancellor of Cambridge (1551, 1556, 1559, 1574, 1580). Master of Peterhouse (1554 - 1589). Dean of Ely (1557 - 1589). (DNB)

Andrew Perne spoke out against transubstantiation in the 1553 convocation, whereupon Hugh Weston, the prolocutor, reprimanded Perne for criticising views to which he had earlier subscribed in the convocation. 1563, p. 912; 1570, p. 1576; 1576, p. 1344; and 1583, p. 1414.

Andrew Perne was called on to repent by Bradford in a letter to the university town of Cambridge. 1563, pp. 1178-80, 1570, pp. 1808-09., 1576, p. 1545, 1583, p. 1627.

Perne was notified by Cardinal Pole's commission, appointed to reinstate catholicism at the University of Cambridge, that he and all Cambridge graduates were to assemble and present all the records belonging to the university or any of the colleges. 1563, pp. 1537 [recte 1549]-1558 [recte 1570]

Scot, Watson and Christopherson wrote to Perne commanding him to warn the graduates of their impending visit to Cambridge. 1563, p. 1537, 1570, p. 2142, 1576, p. 1862, 1583, p. 1956.

On 14 January 1557, after the examination of the provost and vice-provost of Cambridge, Thomas Bacon invited Perne, Dr Young, Dr Harvey, Swinborne, and Maptide to come to dinner. 1563, p. 1541, 1570, p. 2146, 1576, p. 1866, 1583, p. 1960.

In January 1557 Perne acted as queen's commissioner in the examination of certain scholars at Cambridge. 1563, p. 1538, 1570, p. 2142, 1576, p. 1862, 1583, p. 1956.

Scot, Watson and Christopherson authorised Perne to be the common factor for the university. 1563, p. 1541, 1570, p. 2146, 1576, p. 1866, 1583, p. 1959.

Perne was deemed by Christopherson to be more catholic than anyone else at Cambridge. 1563, p. 1541, 1570, p. 2145, 1576, p. 1866, 1583, p. 1958.

Perne exhibited the second commission sent to seek out heresy at the University of Cambridge. 1563, p. 1538, 1570, p. 2147, 1576, p. 1862, 1583, p. 1956.

On the day appointed for the judgment of Phagius and Bucer at Cambridge, Perne addressed the commissioners prior to Scot's oration. 1563, p. 1538, 1570, p. 2147, 1576, p. 1867, 1583, p. 1956.

Perne's sermon against Bucer was against his conscience. 1563, p. 1539, 1570, p. 2148, 1576, p. 1868, 1583, p. 1961.

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William Pye

(d. 1557)

D.D., Archdeacon of Berkshire (1547 - 1557); dean of Chichester (1553 - 1557) (Fasti, Foster )

Pye gave an oration at the beginning of the 1553 convocation (1570, p. 1571; 1576, p. 1340; and 1583, p. 1410).

He objected to Philpot?s arguments against transubstantiation and prevailed upon Hugh Weston, the prolocutor of the 1553 convocation, to silence Philpot (1563, p. 911; 1570, p. 1575; 1576, p. 1344; 1583, p. 1414).

He was appointed as one of the official disputants at the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932 and 936; 1570, p. 1592; 1576, p. 1358; 1583, p. 1428-29).

Pye was one of the catholic disputants in the Oxford disputations of 1554 (1563, pp. 932, 936, 938, 953, 959, 977, 983 and 985; 1570, pp. 1592-93, 1604, 1608, 1622 and 1626-27; 1576, pp. 1358-59, 1368, 1372, 1383 and 1387-88; 1583, pp. 1429-30, 1439, 1443, 1454 and 1458-59).

[NB: A brief account of the Oxford disputations of 1554, which was only printed in 1563, lists Pye as one of those who disputed with Cranmer (1563, p. 933-34). This account also mentions a ?maister Price?, citing canon law against Cranmer (1563, p. 933) and disputing with Ridley (1563, p. 934). ?Price? may very well be a mistake for Pye.]

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[Also referred to as 'Price' and 'Pie']

1438 [1414]

Queene Mary. Disputation in the Conuocation house about the reall presence.

MarginaliaAnno 1554.Then D. Chedsey reciting his argument in such order as it was made, tooke vpon him to answere seuerally to euery parte therefore on this wise. MarginaliaChadseyes answere to Philpot.First to the saying of the Angell, That Christ is not heere: And why seeke yee the liuing among the dead? He answeared, that these sayings pertained nothing to the presence of Christes naturall body in the sacrament, but that they were spoken of Christes body being in the Sepulchree when the three Maries thought hym to haue bene in the graue still. And therfore the Angell sayde: Why doe yee seeke him that liueth, among the deade? And to the authoritie of the 16. of Iohn where Christ saith: Now I leaue the worlde, and goe to my Father. Hee meant that of hys Ascension. And so likewise did Cyril, interpreating the saying of the disciples that knewe plainly that Christ would visibly ascend into heauen, but that doeth not exclude the inuisible presence of his naturall body in the Sacrament. MarginaliaChrisost. ad populum Antioch.For S. Chrysostome wryting to the people of Antioche, doeth afirm the same, comparing Helias and Christ together, and Helias cloake vnto Christes flesh. Helias (quoth he) when he was taken vppe in the fierie chariote, leaft his cloake behinde him vnto his disciple Helisæus. But Christe ascending into heauen, tooke his flesh with him, and left also his flesh behind him. Wherby we may right well gather, that Christes flesh is visibly ascended into heauen, and inuisibly abideth still in the Sacrament of the altare.

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MarginaliaPhilpot replyeth to Chadsey.To this Philpot replied, and said, you haue not directly answeared to the saying of the angel: Christ is risen, and is not heere, because you haue omitted that which was þe chiefest poynt of all. 

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Foxe altered the passage: 'To this answer, Fyllpot replyed, and sayd that he inforced not his argument upon the saying of the angell, (Christ is rysen and not here), but toke his beginnyng therby to procede as is before is rehearsed: so that process wherof yow have not thorowli answered' (Trew report, sig. C5r-v; 1563, p. 911) to read 'To this Philpot replied and sayd, you have not directly aunswered to the saying of the Aungell: Christ is risen and is not here, because you have omitted that which was the chiefest point of all' (1570, p. 1575; 1576, p. 1343; and 1583, p. 1414). Foxe's emendations concealed Philpot's damaging admission that the Scriptural passage he quoted did not support his argument.

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For (sayde he) I proceeded further, as thus: He is risen, ascended, and sitteth at the right hande of God the father: Ergo, he is not remaining on the earth. Neither is your answere to Cyril, by me alleaged, sufficient. But by and by I will returne to your interpretation of Cyrill, and more plainly declare the same, after that I haue first refelled the authority of Chrysostome, which is one of your chief Principles that you alleaged to make for your grosse carnall presence in the sacrament. Which being wel weied and vnderstanded, pertaineth nothing thereunto.

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At that the Prolocutour startled, that one of the chiefe pillers in this point should be ouerthrowen, & therfore recited the sayd authoritie in Latine first, & afterward Englished the same, wyllinge all that were present, to note that saying of Chrysostome, which he thought inuincible on their side. But I shall make it appeare, quoth Philpot, by and by to make litle for your purpose. MarginaliaPhilpot againe interrupted by the Prolocutor.And as he was about to declare his minde in that behalfe, the Prolocutor did interrupt him as he did, almost continually. Wherwith Philpot not being content, said: Master Prolocutour thinketh that he is in a Sophistrie schoole, where he knoweth right well the maner is, that when the Respondent perceiueth that he is like to be inforced with an argument to the which he is not able to answer, then he doth what he can with cauillation & interruption to driue him from the same. This saying of Philpot was ill taken of the Prolocutor and his adherents: and the Prolocutor said, that Philpot could bring nothing to auoid that authoritie, but his owne vaine imagination. Heare quoth Philpot, and afterward iudge. For I wil do in this as al other authorities wherwith you shal charge me in refelling any of my argumentes that I haue to prosecute, answearing either vnto the same by sufficient authorities of scripture, or els by some other testimonye of like authoritie to yours, & not of mine owne imagination: the which if I doe, I will it to be of no credite. And concerning the saying of Chrysostom, I haue 2. wayes to beat him from your purpose, the one oute of Scripture, the other of Chrysostome him selfe, in the place here by you alleaged.

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MarginaliaThe Place of Chrisostome of Christ taking vp his flesh and leauing hys flesh, aunswered to by Philpot.First, where hee seemeth to say, that Christe ascending, tooke hys flesh with him, and leaft also hys flesh behinde him, truth it is: for we all do confesse and beleue that Christ tooke on hym oure humane nature in the virgine Maryes wombe, and through his passyon in the same, hath vnyted vs to hys flesh, and thereby are we become one fleshe with him, so that Chrysostome might therfore right well say, that Christ ascending tooke his fleshe which hee receiued of the virgin Mary, away with him: MarginaliaHow christ left his flesh behinde him.and also left his flesh behind him, which are we that be his electe in this worlde, whych are the mēbers of Christ, and flesh of his flesh: as very aptly S. Paul to the Ephes. in the 5. chap. doth testifie, saying: We are flesh of his flesh, and bones of his bones. MarginaliaEphes. 5.And if percase any man will reply, that he entreateth there of the Sacrament, so that this interpretation can not so aptly be applied vnto him in that place, MarginaliaChrisostome expounded by Chrisostome.then will I yet interprete Chrysostome an other way by himselfe. For in that place a fewe lines before those woordes, whyche were heere no rather read, are these woordes: that Christe after hee Ascended into heauē, leaft vnto vs indued wt his Sacramēts, his flesh in mysteries, that is, Sacramentally. And that mysticall flesh Christ leaueth as well to his Churche in the Sacra-

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ment of Baptisme, as in the sacramentall bread and wine. And that S. Paul iustly doth witnes, saying: As many of vs as are baptised in Christ, haue put vpon vs Christ. MarginaliaGal. 3. And thus you maye vnderstande that S. Chrysostome maketh nothyng for your carnall and grosse presence in the Sacrament, as you wrongfully take him.

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Nowe in this meane while M. Pye rounded the Prolocutor in the eare to put Philpot to silence and to appoint some other, mistrusting lest he would shrodely shake theyr carnal presence in cōclusion, if he held on long, seeing in the beginning he gaue one of their chiefe foundations suche a plucke. Then the Prolocutor sayde to Philpot, MarginaliaWeston.that he had reasoned sufficiently enough, & that some other shuld now supply his rowme. Wherwith he was not wel cōtent, saying: Why sir, I haue a dosen Argumentes concerning this matter to be proposed, and I haue not yet scarce ouergone my first Argument: for I haue not brought in any confirmation therof out of any auncient wryter (whereof I haue for the same purpose manye) beinge hitherto still letted by your oft interrupting of me.

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Wel, quoth þe Prolocutor, you shal speake no more now, and I commaund you to holde your peace. You perceyue, quoth Philpot, that I haue stuffe enoughe for yon, and am able to withstand your false supposition, and therefore you commaund me to silence. MarginaliaA good solution for all his argumentes.If you will not geue place, quoth þe Prolocutor, I wil send you to prison. This is not, quoth Philpot, accordinge to youre promise made in this house, nor yet according to your brag made at Paules crosse, that men should be answeared in this disputation, to whatsoeuer they cā say, since you wil not suffer me of a dosen arguments to prosecute one.

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Then M. Pie tooke vpon him to promise that he shuld be answeared an other day. Philpot seeing he myghte not proceede in hys purpose, being therewith iustly offended, ended, saying thus: A sort of you here, which hitherto haue lurked in corners, and dissembled with God & the worlde, are nowe gathered together to suppresse the sincere truthe of Gods holy woorde, and to sette foorth euerye false deuise, which by the Catholike doctrine of the Scripture, yee are not able to maintaine.

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MarginaliaM. Elmar againe steppeth forth.Then stepped forth M. Elmar Chapleine to the Duke of Suffolke: whome M. Moreman tooke vpon him to answeare. Against whō M. Elmar obiected diuers and sundry authorities for the confirming of the argument he toke the day before in hand to proue, that οὐσία Marginaliaοὐσία.in the sentence of Theodoret brought in by M. Cheiney, must needes signifie substance, and not accidence. Whose reasons and approbations, because they were all grounded and broughte out of the Greeke I doe passe ouer, for that they want theyr grace in English, and also their proper vnderstanding. MarginaliaMoreman desireth a day to imagine some crafty shift.But hys allegations so incombred M. Moreman, that hee desired a day to oueruiew them, for at that instant he was wythout a conuenient answeare.

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Then did the Prolocutor cal M. Haddon deane of Exeter, & Chaplaine to the Duke of Suffolke, who prosecuted Theodoretes authoritie in confirminge M. Elmars argument. MarginaliaWatson confoūded by M. Haddon.To whom D. Watson tooke vpon hym to geue aunswer, who after long talke was so confounded, that he was not able to answer to the word Mysterium. But for as much as he seemed to doubt therein, M. Haddon tooke out of his bosome a Latine author to confirme his saying, & shewed the same to M. Watson, asking him whether he thought þt translation to be true, or þt the Printer were in any faulte. MarginaliaM. Watson for a bare shift putteth the fault in the Printer.There may be a fault in the Printer, quoth Watson, for I am not remembred of this worde. Then did M. Haddon take out of his bosome a Greeke booke, wherin he shewed forth with his finger the same wordes, whiche M. Watson could not deny. His arguments further I omit to declare at large, because they were for the moste parte in Greeke, about the boulting out of the true signification of οὐσία. 

Commentary  *  Close

The text reads (1563, p. 912; 1570, p. 1576; 1576, p. 1344; and 1583, p. 1414) that James Haddon's arguments on the fourth day of the 1553 Convocation, relating to a passage in Theodoret, would not be repeated because they were in Greek. This abridgement was Philpot's, and Foxe was merely repeating it (see Trew report, sigs. C8r-D1v). But Foxe had an account of this expurgated portion of the debate which he never printed, and it survives in his papers (BL Harley MS 422, vols. 38r-40r. This document was printed in R. W. Dixon, A History of the Church of England (6 vols), London, 1884-1902, IV, pp. 81-85.

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MarginaliaM. Pearne agaynst transubstantiation.Thē stept forth M. Perne, & in argument made declaration of his minde against transubstātiation, & confirmed the sayings and authorities alleaged by M. Elmar & M. Haddon. To whome the Prolocutor answered, saying: I much maruel, M. Perne, that you wil say thus, for somuch as on friday last you subscribed to the contrary. Which hys saying master Elmar did mislike, saying to the Prolocutor that he was to blame so to reprehend any man, partlye for that this house (quoth he) is an house of free libertye for euery man to speake his conscience, and partly for that you promised yester day, that notwtstanding any man had subscribed, yet he should haue free libertie to speake his mind. And for that the night did approche, and þe time was spent, the Prolocutor geuing them praises for their learning, did yet notwythstanding conclude, that al reasoning set apart, the order of the holy churche must be receiued, & all thyngs must be ordered thereby. MarginaliaD. Weston praiseth their learning to flatter them, but he answereth not their argumentes.

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