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1467 [1443]

Queene Mary. Disputation of Doctor Ridley Bishop of London at Oxford.

MarginaliaAnno 1554. Aprill.Ergo, the second part is true.

The first part of thys argument is manifest, and the second may yet further be confirmed thus.

MarginaliaD. Weston agayne interrupted D. Ridley.West. Thus you consume time, which might be better bestowed on other matters. Maister Opponent, I pray you to your arguments.

Smith. I will heere reason with you vppon transubstantiation, which you say is contrary to the rule and Analogy of faith. The contrary whereof I proue by the Scriptures and the doctors. But before I enter argumentation wyth you, I demaund first whether in the 6. chap. of Iohn, there be any mention made of the sacrament, or of the reall presence of Christ in the sacrament.

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Rid. It is againste reason that I shoulde bee impeached to prosecute that which I haue to speake in this assembly, being not so long, but that it may be comprehended in few woordes.

West. Let him reade on.

Marginalia7. Inconueniences come of the reall peesence.Rid. First of all, this presence is contrary to many places of the holy Scripture.

Secondly, it varieth from the articles of the faith.

Thirdly, it destroyeth and taketh awaye the institution of the Lordes supper.

Fourthly, it maketh precious thinges common to prophane and vngodly persones: for it casteth that whyche is holy vnto dogs, and pearles vnto swine.

Fiftly, it forceth men to maintaine many mōstruous miracles without necessitie and authoritie of Gods worde.

Sixtly, it geueth occasion to the heretickes which erred concerning the two natures in Christe, to defend their heresies thereby.

Seuenthly, it falsifieth the sayings of the godly fathers: it falsifieth also the Catholike Faith of the Church, whyche the Apostles taught, the martyrs confirmed, and the faithfull (as one of the Fathers sayeth) doe retaine and keepe vntill this day. Wherefore the second parte of mine argument is true.

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The probation of the antecedent or former part of this argument by the partes thereof.

MarginaliaThe 7. inconueniences declared by partes. Marginalia
The first inconuenience.
The reall presence against the scripture.
THis carnall presence is contrary to the worde of God, as appeareth, Iohn. 16. I tell you the trueth. It is profitable to you that I goe away, for if I goe not away, the comfortour shall not come vnto you. Actes 3. Whome the heauens must receaue vntill the time of restoring of all thinges which God hath- spoken. Math. 9. The children of the Bridegrom cannot mourne so long as the Bridegrome is with them: But nowe is the time of mourning. Iohn 16. But I will see you againe, and your heartes shall reioyce. Iohn 14. I will come againe and take you to my selfe. Math. 24. If they shall say vnto you, behold, here is Christ, or there is Christe, beleeue them not: for wheresoeuer the deade carcase is, thither the Eagles will resort.

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Marginalia2. The real presence agaynst the Articles of the fayth.It varyeth from the articles of the faith: He ascended into heauen, and sitteth on the right hande of God the Father. From whence (and not from any other place, sayeth S. Augustine) he shall come to iudge both the quicke and the deade.

Marginalia3. It destroyeth the institution of the Lordes supper.It destroyeth and taketh awaye the institution of the Lordes supper, which was commaunded onely to be vsed and continued vntill the Lorde himselfe shoulde come. If therefore he be nowe really present in the body of his flesh, then must the supper cease: For a remembraunce is not of a thing present, but of a thing past and absent. And there is a difference betwene remembraunce and presence, and (as one of the Fathers sayeth) A figure is in vaine where the thing figured is present.

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Marginalia4. It prophaneth thinges holy and precious, & gendreth absurdities.It maketh precious things common to prophane and vngodly persons, & constraineth men to confesse many absurdities. For it affirmeth that whoremongers and murtherers, yea and (as some of them hold opinion) the wicked and faithles, mise, rattes, & dogs also may receiue the verye real and corporal body of the Lord, wherin the fulnes of the spirite of light and grace dwelleth: contrary to the manifest wordes of Christ in sixe places & sentences of the sixt chap. of S. Iohn.

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MarginaliaAnthropophagi, are a kinde of brutishe people that feed on mens flesh.It confirmeth also and maintaineth that beastly kinde of crueltie of the Anthropophagi,that is, the deuourers of mans flesh: for it is a more cruel thing to deuoure a quicke man, then to slay him.

Pie. He requireth time to speake blasphemies. Leaue your blasphemies. 

Commentary  *  Close

Foxe corrected what was an excessively verbose translation made in the 1563 edition (1563, p. 959) of Ridley's exchange with Pye and Weston (see 1570, pp. 1608-09; 1576, p. 1372; 1583, p. 1443).

 
Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Addenda, ref. page 474, line 8

Edition 1563 reads, "Doth the time require that you speak blasphemies? Lay your blasphemies aside, I say:" and at line 11, "all is husht and at quiet," which is supported by the Latin account; and at line 25, more correctly, "workers of miracles," in the Latin, "mirabiliarios."

Rid. I had little thought to haue hadde such reprochefull woordes at your handes.

West. All is quiet. Goe to the arguments M. Doctor.

Rid. I haue not many moe things to say.

West. You vtter blasphemies with a most impudent face: leaue off (I say) and get you to the argument.

Marginalia5. It maintayneth monstrous myracles without necessitie.Rid. It forceth men to maintaine many monstrous myracles, wythout all necessitie and authoritie of Gods worde. For at the comming of thys presence of the body and flesh of Christ, they thrust away the substaunce of breade, and affirme that the accidents remayne without any subiect, and in the stead thereof, they place Christes body wythout hys qualities and the true maner of a bodye. And if the Sacrament be reserued so long vntill it mould, & wormes breede some say that the substance of bread miraculously returneth againe, and some deny it. MarginaliaAll the rest that foloweth was not read, because the prolocutor made post hast to the argumentes.Other some affirme þt the real body of Christ goeth downe into þe stomacke of the receiuers, & doth there abide so long only as they shall continue to be good, but another sort hold that the body of Christ is caried into heauē, so soone as the formes of bread be brused wyth the teeth. O works of miracles: Truely & most truly I see that fulfilled in these men, whereof S. Paule prophecied. 2. Thess. 2. Because they haue not receiued the loue of the trueth, that they might be saued, God shall sende them strong delusions, that they shoulde beleeue lies, and be all damned which haue not beleeued the truth. This grosse presence hath brought foorth that fonde phantasie of concomitaunce, whereby is broken at this day and abrogated the commandement of the Lord for the distributing of the Lordes cuppe to the laitie. MarginaliaBy this deuise of concomitance, the Papistes imagine asmuch to be receaued vnder one kinde as both.

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Marginalia6. It geueth occasion to heretickes.It geueth occasion to heretickes to maintaine and defend their errours: as to Martion, which sayd that Christ had but a phantasticall bodye: and to Eutiches which wickedly confounded the two natures in Christ.

Marginalia7. It falsifieth the sayinges of the old doctors.Finally, it falsifieth the sayings of the godly fathers and the Catholicke faith of the church, which Vigilius a Martyr, and graue wryter sayeth was taught of the Apostles, confirmed wyth the bloude of Martyrs, and was continually maintained by the faithful, vntil his tyme. By the sayings of the fathers, I meane of Iustine, Irenee, Tertullian, Origene, Eusebius, Emisene, Athanasius, Cyrill, Epyphanius, Hierome, Chrysostome, Augustine, Vigilius, Fulgentius, Bertram, and others most auncient fathers. All those places, as I am sure I haue read, making for my purpose, so am I well assured that I coulde shewe the same, if I myght haue the vse of mine owne bookes, whiche I will take on me to doe, euen vpon the pearill of my life, and the losse of all that I maye lose in thys world.

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But now (my brethren) thinke not, because I disalow that presence which this first proposition maintaineth (as a presence which I take to be forged, phantasticall, and besides the authoritie of Gods worde, pernitiously broughte into the Church by the Romanistes) MarginaliaThe true presence of Christes body in the Supper not denyed.that I therefore go about to take away the true presence of Christes body in his Supper rightly and duely ministred, whyche is grounded vpon the word of God, and made more plaine by the commentaries of þe faithfull fathers: They that thinke so of me, the Lord knoweth how far they are deceiued. And to make the same euident vnto you. I will in fewe woords declare what true presence of Christes body in the sacramēt of the Lordes supper I hold and affirme with the worde of God and the auncient fathers.

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MarginaliaThe fayth & confession of D. Ridley in affirming the true presēce in the Sacrament.I say and confesse with the Euangelist Luke, and wyth the Apostle Paule, that the bread on the which thankes are geuen, is the body of Christe in the remembraunce of hym and of his death, to be set foorth perpetually of the faithfull vntill his comming.

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I say and confesse the bread which we breake to be the Communion and partaking of Christes bodye, wyth the auncient and the faithfull fathers.

MarginaliaThe grace of lyfe and immortality geuen with the Sacrament to the faythfull.I say and beleeue that there is not onely a signification of Christes body sette foorth by the sacrament, but also that therewith is geuen to the godly and faithfull, the grace of Christes body, that is, the foode of life & immortalitye. And this I holde wyth Cyprian.

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MarginaliaLife eaten. August. MarginaliaThe Lord felt In grace. Emisse.I say also with S. Augustine, that wee eate life, and wee drinke life: with Emisene, that we feele the Lorde to be present in grace: MarginaliaCelestiall foode receaued Athan.wyth Athanasius, that wee receiue Celestiall foode, which commeth from aboue: MarginaliaThe property of naturall communion receaued Hilar.the propertie of natural Communion, wyth Hyllarius: the nature of flesh and benediction whych geueth life in breade and wine, wyth Cyrill: MarginaliaThe vertue of Christes flesh, Cyrill.and wyth the same Cyrill, the vertue of the very ffesh of Christ, life and grace of his body, the propertie of the onely begotten, that is to say, life, as he himselfe in plaine words expoundeth it.

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MarginaliaThe misticall aduent of Christ. Basill.I confesse also with Basil, that we receiue the mysticall Aduent and comming of Christ, grace, & the vertue of hys very nature: MarginaliaThe sacrament of his very flesh. Ambrose.the sacrament of his very flesh, with Ambrose: MarginaliaThe body by grace Epiphan.the body by grace, with Epiphanius: MarginaliaSpirituall fleshe but not that which was crucified. Hierom.spirituall flesh, but not that which was crucified, with Hierome: MarginaliaGrace flowing in to a sacrifice Chrisost.Grace flowing into a sacrifice, and the grace of the spirite, with Chrysostome: MarginaliaGrace and inuisible verity Aug.grace and inuisible veritie, grace and societie of the members of Christes body, with Augustine.

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MarginaliaThe power of Gods word feading the soule Bertram.Finally, with Bertram (which was the last of all these) I confesse that Christes body is in the Sacrament in thys

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