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John Moreman
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John Moreman

(1490? - 1554)

D.D., vicar of Menheniot, Cornwall; nominated to the deanery of Exeter but he died before presentation. He was a major figure in the diocese of Exeter (see DNB)

John Moreman was one of the champions of catholic doctrine in the disputes in the 1553 convocation; he debated with John Aylmer, John Philpot and Walter Phillips there (1563, pp. 907-09, 912 and 915-16; 1570, pp. 1572-74, 1576 and 1578; 1576, pp. 1341-42, 1344 and 1346-47; 1583, pp. 1411-12, 1414 and 1417).

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Ridley reported, in a letter to Cranmer written in the aftermath of the Oxford disputations in April 1554, that Moreman had persuaded Sir James Hales to recant (1570, p. 1634; 1576, p. 1394; 1583, p. 1464).

Foxe describes Moreman as coadjutor to John Veysey, the bishop of Exeter and then Veysey?s successor (1570, p. 1636; 1576, p. 1396; 1583, p. 1467). The last is inaccurate but the DNB suggests that Moreman was nominated dean of Exeter but died before he could take up the post.

1435 [1411]

Queene Mary. Disputation in the Conuocation house about the reall presence.

MarginaliaAnno 1553.son and order of learnyng, and also very preiudiciall to the truth, that men should be mooued to subscribe before the matter were throughly examined and discussed. MarginaliaAgaynst the article of naturall presence.But when he saw that allegation might take no place, being as a mā astonied at the multitude of so many learned men as there were of purpose gathered together to maintayne olde traditions more then the truth of Gods holy word, he made his request vnto the Prolocutor, that were as there were so many auncient learned men present on that side, as in þe realme the like againe were not to be found in such number, & that on the other side of them that had not subscribed, were not past v. or vj. both in age and learnyng far inferior vnto them: therfore, that equalitie might bee had in this disputation, he desired that the Prolocutor would bee a meane vnto the Lords, that some of those that were learned, & setters forth of the same Catechisme might be broght into the house to shew their learning that mooued them to set forth the same, MarginaliaRequest to haue Doct. Ridley & M. Rogers at the disputation.and that D. Ridley & M. Rogers, with two or three mo, might be licenced to be present at this disputation, and to be associate with them.

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MarginaliaAunswere of the Bishops vnto the request.This request was thought reasonable, and was proposed vnto the Bishops, who made this aunswer: that it was not in them to call such persons vnto our house, since some of them were prisoners. But they sayd, they would be petitioners in this behalfe vnto the Counsayle, and in case any were absent that ought to bee of the house, they willed them to bee taken in vnto them if they listed. After this they mindyng to haue entred into disputation, there came a Gentleman as messenger from the Lord great master, 

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Philpot states that a messenger came to Convocation on 20 October 1563 from the 'lord gret master' (Trew report, sig. A7r) and this is repeated in every edition of the Actes and Monuments (1563, p. 906; 1570, p. 1572; 1576, p. 1340; and 1583, p. 1411). In the Rerum the official's title is given as 'Domine magni oeconomi', but, more helpfully, a marginal note reads 'Is est Comes Arundellus, qui ad nobilitatis antiquiss. ornamenta, adiecit etiam eruditionem non vulgarem' (Rerum, p. 216). This not only identifies the office of 'lord gret master' (it is Lord High Steward, the Earl of Arundel's hereditary office) but it also confirms that Foxe did not even consult the Rerum, much less translate it, when printing Philpot's account of the Convocation for the 1563 edition.

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Cattley Pratt  *  Close
Cattley/Pratt, VI, Appendix, ref. page 397, lines 4, 5

{Cattley/Pratt alters 'Lord great master' to 'lord high steward'.} All the English editions, following Philpot's original, read erroneously "lord great master." The Latin edition (1559), p. 216, says: "quidam generosus accessit, nomine Domini magni œconomi, significans ipsum cum Comite Devoniensi (qui sanguine ortus regio, quamvis a pueris carcere clauses fuerit, in omni tamen disciplinarum genere non mediocriter eruditus, natalibus nuper æquissimo judicio comitiorum restitutus est) velle disputationi interesse:" and the margin says opposite to "œconomi," "Is est comes Arundellus qui ad nobilitatis antiquiss. ornamenta adjecit etiam eruditionem non vulgarem." See Beatson's Political Index, vol. i. p. 432, edit. 1806; and Gerdes' Miscellanea Groningana nova, tom. ii. pt. i. p. 168, note.

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Addenda:It would seem from a note of Mr. Nichols on Machyn's Diary, Preface, p. xiv., that the Latin gives the more correct title; for that the Earl of Arundel, having been made Lord Great Master soon after the accession of Mary, procured the restoration of the former designation "Lord High Steward," which had been changed on the appointment of the Duke of Suffolk in 1531, copying the French title. This title or name of office occurs in a quotation in the "Retrospective Review," New Series, i. 210.

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signifiyng vnto the Prolocutor, that the L. great maister, and the Earle of Deuonshire would be present at the disputations, and therfore he deferred the same vnto monday, at one of the clocke at after noone.

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¶ The Acte of the third day.

MarginaliaThe third Sessiō. October. 23.Vpon Monday the xiij. of October, at the time apointed, in the presence of many Erles, Lordes, Knights, gentlemen, and diuers other of the Court and of the Citie also, the Prolocutor made a Protestation, that they of the house had appoynted this disputation, not to call the truth into doubt, to the which they had alredy all subscribed, sauing v. or sixe, but that those gainsayers might be resolued of their arguments in the which they stood, as it shall appeare vnto you, not doubting but they will also condescēd vnto vs.

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MarginaliaM. Haddon and M. Elmar refuse to aunswere, except their request were graunted.Then he demanded of M. Haddon whether he would reason against the questions proposed, or no. To whom he made answer, that he had certified hym before in writyng, that he would not, since the request of such learned men as were demaunded to be assistent with them, would not bee graunted. M. Elmar like wyse was asked. Who made the Prolocutor the like aunswer, addyng moreouer this, that they had done too much preiudice already to the truth, to subscribe before thematter was discussed: and little or nothyng it might auayle to reason for the truth, since all they were now determined to the contrary. After this he demaunded of M. Cheyney, MarginaliaM. Cheyny the Archdeacon of Herford now B. of Glocester.whome the Prolocutor sayd allowed the presence with them, but he denyed the transubstantiation by the meanes of certayne authorities vppon the which he standeth, and desireth to be resolued, as you shall heare, whether he will propose his doubtes concernyng Transubstantiation or no. Yea, quoth he, I would gladly my doubts to be resolued, which mooue me not to beleeue Transubstantiation.

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MarginaliaM. Cheynyes doubtes about transubstantiation.The first is out of S. Paule to the Cor. who speakyng of the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ, calleth it oft tymes bread after the consecration.

The second is out of Origene, who speaking of this sacrament, sayth, that the materiall part therof goeth down to the excrements.

The third is out of Theodoretus, who making mention of the sacramentall bread and wine after the consecration, saith that they go not out of their former substance, forme, and shape. These be some of my doubts among many other, wherein I require to be answered.

MarginaliaMoremans aunswere to S. Paule.Then the Prolocutor assigned D. Moreman to answer him, who to Saint Paule answered him thus: That the Sacrament is called by hym bread in deede, but it is thus to be vnderstood, that it is the sacrament of bread, that is, the forme of bread.

MarginaliaM. Cheyny replyeth to Moremans aunswere.Then M. Cheyney inferred and alledged, that Hesychius called the sacrament both bread and flesh.

Yea quoth Moreman, Hesychius calleth it bread, because it was bread, & not because it is so. And passing ouer Origen, he came to Theodoretus, & sayd, that men mistooke hys authoritie, by interpreting a general into a special, as Peter Martyr hath done inþe place of Theodoret, interpretyng

οὐσία, for substance, which is a special signification of þe word whereas οὐσία, is a general word, as well to accidence, as to substane, and MarginaliaMoremans aūswere to Theodoretus.therefore I answer thus vnto Theodoret, þt the sacramental bread and wine do not go out of their former substance, forme, and shape, that is to say, not out of their accidentall substance and shape.

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After this M. Cheyney sat him downe, & by and by MarginaliaM Elmar argueth agaynst D. Moremans aunswere.M. Elmar stood vp as one that could not abide to heare so fōd an answer to so graue an authoritie, & reasoned vpon the authoritie of Theodoret alledged before by M. Cheyney, & declared that Moremans aunswer to Theodoret, was no iust nor sufficient answer, but an illusion and a subtill euasion contrary to Theodorets meaning. MarginaliaMoremans shift is ouer throwen.For, said he, if οὐσία, should signify an accident in the place alledged, as it is answered by M. Moreman, then were it a word superfluous set in Theodoret there, where do follow two other wordes which sufficiently do expound the accidēces of þe bread, þt is εἰδος καὶ σχῆμα, which signify in English, shape and forme: & so prooue out of the same author by diuers allegations, þt οὐσία, in Greek could not be so generally taken in that place as Moreman for a shift would haue it. But Moreman, as a man hauing no other salue for that sore, affirmed stil that οὐσία, which signifieth substance, must needes signify an accidental substance properly. To whose importunity, since he could haue no other answer. Elmar as a man wearied with his importunity, gaue place.

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MarginaliaPhilpots replication to Moremans shift.After this stood vp Iohn Philpot and sayd, þt hee could prooue that by the matter that Theodoret intreateth of in the place aboue alledged, and by the similitude whiche hee maketh to prooue his purpose, by no meanes M. Moremans interpretation of οὐσία, might be taken for an accidētall substaunce, as he for a shift would interprete it to be. MarginaliaThe place of Theodoret opened.For the matter which Theodoret intreateth of in þt place, is against Eutiches an hereticke, whiche denied two natures of substance to remayne in Christ beyng one person, and that his humanitie after the accomplishment of þe mysterie of our saluation, ascendyng into heauen, & being ioined vnto the Diuinitie, was absorpt or swalowed vp of þe same, so that Christ should bee no more but of one deuine substance only by his opiniō. MarginaliaThe argument of Theodoret a simili.Against which opiniō Theodoret writeth, and by the similitude of the sacrament prooueth the contrary against the hereticke: that like as in the sacrament of the body of Christ after the consecratiō, there is the substance of Christes humanitie, with the substance of bread, remaining as it was befor, not beyng absorpt of þe humanitie of Christ, but ioyned by the deuine operation therunto, euen so in the person of Christ being now in heauen, of whom this sacrament is a representation, there bee two seueral substances, that is, his diuinitie & humanitie vnited in one hypostasie or person, which is Christ, the humanitie not beyng absorpt by the coniunction of the diuinitie, but remaining in his former substance.

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And this similitude quoth Philpot, brought in of Theodoret to confound Eutiches, should prooue nothing at al, if the very substance of the sacramentall bread dyd not remayne, as it did before. But if D. Moremans interpretation might take place for transubstantiatiō, then should the heretike haue thereby a strong argument by Theodorets authoritie, so taken to maintayne his heresie, and to prooue hymselfe a good christen man, and he might well say thus vnto Theodoret. MarginaliaThe place of Theodoret falsely taken of the Papistes.Like as thou Theodoret, if thou were of D. Moremans mynd, doest say, that after the consecration in the sacrament, the substaunce of the bread is absorpt or transubstantiate into the humane body of Christ commyng thereunto, so that in the sacrament is now but one substance of humanitie alone, and not the substance of bread as it was before: euen likewise may I affirme and conclude by thine owne similitude, that the humanitie ascending vp by the power of God into heauen, & adioyned vnto the deitie, was by the might therof absorpt & turned into one substance with the deitie: so that now there remayneth but one diuine substance in Christ, no more then in the sacramental signes of the Lords supper, after þe consecration doth remayne any more then one substaunce, accordyng to your beliefe and construction.

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MarginaliaThe false exposition of D. Moreman vpon Theodoretus, ouerthrowen.In aunsweryng to this D. Moreman stackerd, whose defect Philpot perceiuyng, spake on this wyse. Well, M. Moreman, if you haue no answer at this present ready, I pray you deuise one, if you can conueniently, agaynst our next meetyng here agayne.

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MarginaliaWeston is offended. Philpots replycation aunswered by commaunding him to silence.With that his saying the Prolocutor, was grieuously offended, tellyng hym that he should not bragge there, but that he should be fully answered. Then sayd Philpot, it is the thing that I only desire, to be answered directly in this behalfe, & I desire of you, & of all the house at this present, that I may be sufficiently answered, which I am sure you are not able to do, sauyng Theodoretus authoritie and si-

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