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1486 [1462]

Queen Mary. Harpsfield disputeth for his forme. Cranmer opposeth.

MarginaliaAnno 1554. Aprill. dam manducandi modus. i. There is a certaine manner of eating. Augustine speaketh of two maners of eating: the one of them that eat worthely, the other that eat vnworthely.

MarginaliaThe 6. chap. of Iohn is to be referred partly to the Supper, partly to fayth after the papistes. Harps. All thinges in the 6. of Iohn are not to be referred to the Sacrament, but to the receiuing of Christe by faith. The Fathers doe agree that there is not entreatie made of the supper of the Lorde, before they come vnto, Panis quem dabo vobis, caro mea est. &c.

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Cran. There is entreatinge of Manna both before & after.

Harps. I wil apply an other answer. This argument hath a kinde of poysone in it, which must be thus bitten away, that Manna and this Sacrament be not both one. Manna hath not his efficacie of him selfe, but of God.

MarginaliaComparisō betweene eating of māna, & eating the body of christ. Cran. But they that did take Manna worthily, had fruite therby: and so by your assertion, he that doth eat the flesh of Christ worthily, hath his fruite by that.

Therfore the like doth folow of them both: and so there should be no difference betwene Manna & thys sacrament by your reason.

Harps. When it is sayde, that they which did eate Manna, are dead, it is to be vnderstand, that they did want the * vertue of Manna.

* If M. Harpsfield do meane of bodily life,  

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Foxe could not resist inserting into the narrative a counter-argument of his own to rebut Harpsfield (textual variant 65).

they which eate the Sacrament doe die, as well as they which did eate the Manna. If he meane of spiritual life, neither be they all damned that did eat Manna, nor all saued that do eate the Sacrament. Wherefore the truth is, that neither the eating of Manna bringeth death, nor the eating of the Sacrament bringeth saluation: but only the spirituall beleeuing vppon Christes bodely passion, which onely iustifieth both them and vs. And therefore as the effect is spirituall, whych Christ speaketh of in this chapter: so is the cause of that effecte spirituall whereof hee meaneth, which is our spirituall beleeuing in him, and not our bodely eating of him.

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Cran. They then which doe eate either of them worthely, doe liue.

Harps. They doe lyue whiche doe eate Manna worthely, not by Manna, but by the power of God geuen by it. The other which doe eate this Sacrament, do liue by the same.

Cran. Christe did not entreate of the cause, but the effecte which folowed: he doth not speake of the cause whereof the effect proceedeth.

Harps. I do say the effects are diuers, life and death, which do folow the worthy, and the vnworthy eating therof.

Cran. Sithens you will needes haue an addition to it, we must vse both in Manna & in this Sacrament, indifferently, either worthily or vnworthily.

Christ spake absolutely of Manna, and of the Supper, so that after that absolute speaking of the Supper, wicked men can in no wise eate the fleshe of Christe, and drinke his bloud.

Further Augustine vpon Iohn, Tractatu 26. vppon these wordes, Qui manducat, &c. sayth: There is no suche respecte in common meates, as in the Lords body. For who that eateth other meates, hath still hunger, and needeth to be satisfied daily: but hee that doth eate the flesh of Christ, and drinketh his bloud, doth liue for euer. MarginaliaAugust. in Iohn. tract. 26. But you know wicked men not to doe so.

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Ergo, wicked men doe not receiue.

Harps. S. Augustine meaneth, that hee who eateth Christes flesh. &c. after a certaine manner, should liue for euer. Wicked men doe eate, but not after that maner.

MarginaliaArgument in the 2. figure and 2. mode. Ca-
Cran. Onely they which participate Christ, be of the
mysticall body.
me- But the euill men are not of the mysticall body:
stres. Therefore they doe not participate Christ.

MarginaliaDoct. Cranmer commended for his modesty. Weston. Your wonderfull gentle behaueour and modesty (good master D. Cranmer) is woorthy muche commendation: and that I may not depriue you of your right & iuste deseruing, I geue you most hearty thankes in myne owne name, and in the name of all my brethren. At the which saying all the Doctors gently put off theyr cappes. Then M. Weston did oppose the Respondent on this wise.

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West. Tertullian doth cal the sacrament the signe and figure of the Lorde. MarginaliaTertull. cōtra Martion.

S. Augustine ad Dardanum sayeth: Non dubitauit Dominus dicere, hoc est corpus meum, cum daret signum corporis, i. MarginaliaAugust. ad Dardan. The Lorde did not sticke to say, this is my body, when hee gaue a signe of his body.

Besides this, he geueth rules howe to vnderstand the scriptures, saying: If the Scriptures seeme to commaund some heynous thing, then it is figuratiue, as by example: Manducare carnem & bibere sanguinem, est tropicus sermo. i. MarginaliaAugust. de doctrina Christiana. To eate the flesh and drinke the bloud, is a tropicall speache.

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MarginaliaAunswere to Tertull. Harps. Tertullian did wryte in that place against Martion an heretique, who denied Christ to haue a true body, and said, he had onely a fantasticall body. He went aboute to shewe

that we had Christ both in heauē and in earth: and though we haue the true bodye in the Sacrament, yet hee woulde not goe about so to confounde him, as to say, that Christe was truely in the Sacrament: For that heretique woulde haue thereat rather marueiled, then beleeued it. Therefore hee shewed him, that it was the figure of Christe: and a figure can not be, but of a thing that is, or hath bene extant.

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MarginaliaAunswere to August.To the texte of Augustine: the Churche hathe neuer taught the contrarye. There is an outwarde thing in the Sacrament, which sometimes hath sundry names. For it maye be called a Figure in this declaration: That Bodye which is in the sacrament, is a figure of Christ dwelling in heauen.

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MarginaliaAunswere to August. De doctrina Christiana.To the thirde: That whych is brought by Augustine for example, about the vnderstanding of the Scriptures, is thus to be vnderstanded, as tending to a generall manner of eating: so Manducare carnem, & bibere sanguinem. i. To eate the flesh, and drinke the bloude, may be a figuratiue speache to exclude Anthropophagiam i. The eating of mans flesh, the which is, when we eate mans flesh cutte into morsels, as we eate common meate: so as we neither haue nor eat Christ in the Sacrament.

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West. I vnderstand your short & learned answeare, which doth sufficiently content me. MarginaliaThe 2. question.But nowe to the second question, which is of transubstantiation.

The scripture calleth it bread.

Ergo, it is bread.

Harps. In the name of breade all is signified whyche wee doe eate.

West. Theodoretus an ancient wryter, in his firste Dialogue, sayth, MarginaliaTheodoretus Dial. 1.that Christ changed not the nature, but called it his body.

MarginaliaA single sole aunswere to Theodoretus. Harps. He doeth there speake de Symbolo, which is, Externa species sacramenti. i. The outwarde forme of the Sacrament. Hee meaneth that, that doth tarie in his owne nature. Moreouer, as it was reported, hee brought for his answere Augustinum in sententijs Prosperi.

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West. Theodorete also in hys seconde Dialogue of these kindes of breade and wine sayeth: MarginaliaTheodoretus Dial. 2. Nec naturam egrediuntur, manent etiam in sua substantia. i. They goe not oute of their owne nature, but they tarie in their own substaunce.

Harps. They are vnderstanded to be of the same substance wherein they are Marginalia* And how are they turned if they remayne in Priori substātia. Simbolum quid.* turned.

West. But what say you by this? Manent in priori substantia: They remaine in their former substance.

Harps. Symbola manent: The outward signes doe tarie.

West. But what is meant here by this word, Symbolum?

Harps. The outwarde fourme or shape onely of the Nature.

West Then you can not call them a substance.

Harps. Yes Syr, euery thing hath a certaine substaunce in hys kinde.

West. That is true, but accidentes are not substaunces in theyr kinde.

Harpsfielde. Sunt quid in suo genere. Of thys they contended much.

West. Chrysostome ad Cæsarium Monachum sayeth, Sicut antequam consecratur, panis est: sic postquam consecratur, liberatus est ab appellatione panis, donatusque est appellatione corporis Domini, cum natura remanet: MarginaliaChrisost. ad Cæsarium Monachum.That is. Like as before it is consecrated, it is breade: so after it is consecrated, it is deliuered from the name of breade, and is endued with þe name of the Lordes body, where as the nature doth remaine.

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Harps. Where reade you this place, I pray you?

MarginaliaD. Weston compyleth his argumentes out of Pet. Martyrs story. West. Here in Peter Martyr I finde it: I haue hys Booke in my hand.

Harps. The authour shall be of more credite, before that I make so much of him, as to frame an answere vnto it.

Weston. In deede I knowe not well where he findeth it. But MarginaliaGelasius.Gelasius sayeth, that the nature of breade and wine doe tarrie.

Harps. What is that Gelasius?

West. A Bishop of Rome.

Harps. Then he allowed the Masse.

West. Yea, and oftentimes sayde it: and Purgatorie he also allowed, and so prayer for the deade, reliques, and inuocation to saintes.

Harps. Belyke then hee meant nothing against Transubstantiation.

West. It doeth appeare so in deede. But Origene vppon Math. the 15. Chapter saith, MarginaliaOrigenes in Mat. cap. 15.that the material breade doeth tarrye, and is conueyed into the priuie, and is eaten of wormes.

Harps. Tushe, tushe, thys place appertaineth vnto holye breade.

West. What, doth it appertaine to holy bread?

Harps. Yea, vnto holy breade.

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