Critical Apparatus for this Page
View an Image of this PageCommentary on the Text
Names and Places on this Page
None
825 [801]

K. Hen. 8 The Popes Bull. Dissention amongest Friers for the conception of the Virgin Mary.

themselues hereunto, directed foorth by the authority Apostolicall, a Bul, in effect as foloweth.

MarginaliaThe tenour of the popes Bull for the conception of the virgin to be without original sinne. 

Commentary  *  Close

Sixtus IV's bull comes from Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritateconceptionis beatae Mariae virginis (Paris, 1513), fo. 24r-v. As Foxe indicates, he is printing a paraphrase of the bull. It is also a somewhat misleading paraphrase; in actual fact, Sixtus IV mandated excommunication for anyone who denounced eitherthe maculist or immaculist positions as heretical.

[Back to Top]
Sane cum sancta Romana ecclesia de intemeratæ semperque virginis. &c. In English. Whereas the holy Churche of Rome hath ordained a speciall and proper seruice for the publique solemnising of the feast of the conception of the blessed virgin Mary: certaine orders of the Blacke friers in their publique sermons to the people in diuers places, haue not cesed hitherto to preach and yet daily do, that all they which hold or affirme the sayd glorious virgine to haue bene conceiued without originall sinne, be heretiques: and they which celebrate the seruice of the sayde her conception, or do heare the sermons of them which do so affirme, doe sinne grieuously: also not contented herewith, doe wryte and set foorth bookes moreouer, mainteining their assertions, to the great offence and ruine of godly mindes: We therfore to preuent and wythstand such presumptuous and peruers assertions, which haue risen, and more heereafter may arise by suche opinions and preachings aforesaid, in the mindes of the faithfull: by the authority Apostolical, do condemne, and reproue the same, and by the motion, knowledge and authority aforesayd, decree and ordeyne, that the preachers of Gods word, and all other persones of what state, degree, order, or condition soeuer they be, which shall presume to dare affirme or preach to the people these foresayde opinions and assertions to be true, or shall reade, holde, or maintaine any suche bookes for true, hauing before intelligence hereof, shal incurre thereby the sentence of excommunication: from whyche they shall not be absolued otherwise then by the bishop of Rome, except onely in the time of death. Thys Bull being dated the yere of our Lord. 1483. gaue no litle heart and encouragement to the gray Friers Franciscanes, which defended the pure conception of the holy virgin, against the blacke Dominicke friers, with theyr confederates, holding the contrary side. By the vigour of which Bull, the Gray order had got such a conquest of the Blacke garde of the Dominikes, that the sayd Dominikes were compelled at length for a perpetuall memoriall of the triumph, both to geue to the glorious virgine euery night an Antheme in praise of her Conception, and also to subscribe vnto their doctrine: In which doctrine these, wyth diuers other poyntes bee conteined. 
Commentary  *  Close

These propositions were gleaned from a list of admittedly debatablepropositions about the Immaculate Conception which Jodocus Clichtoveus sought todefend (De puritate conceptionis beatae Mariae virginis [Paris, 1513], fos. 27v-35v).These propositions do not represent points of consensus among even immaculist theologians, much less, as Foxe states, required articles of faith for Catholics.

[Back to Top]

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaEx Iod. Clitoueo de puritate cōceptionis. Lib. 2.1 That blessed Mary the virgine suffered the griefes and aduersities of this life, not for any necessity inflicted for punishment of Originall sinne: but onely because she would conforme her selfe to the imitation of Christ.

MarginaliaFilthy absurdities in the Popes doctrine.2 That the sayde virgin, as she was not obliged to anye punishmente due for sinne, as neither was Christe her sonne: so she had no neede of remission of sinnes, but in steed thereof had the diuine preseruation of Gods helpe, keeping her from all sinne: which grace only she needed, and also had it.

[Back to Top]

3 Item, that where the body of the virgin Mary was subiect to death, and died: MarginaliaHow the virgin Mary was subiect to death after the friers opinions this is to be vnderstand to come not for any penaltie due for sinne, but either for imitation and cōformitie vnto Christ, or els for the natural constitution of her body being elemental, as were þe bodies of our first parents: who if they had not tasted of the forbidden fruit, should haue bene preserued from death, not by nature, but by grace & strength of other fruits and meates in Paradise. Which meates, because Mary had not, but did eate our cōmon meates, therfore she died, and not for any necessitie of Originall sinne. Clitouæus lib. 2. cap. 2.

[Back to Top]

4 The vniuersall proposition of S. Paule, which sayth that the Scripture hath concluded all men vnder sinne, is to be vnderstand thus, as speaking of all them which be not exempted by the speciall priuiledge of God, as is the blessed virgin Mary.

5 If iustification be taken for reconciliation of him that was vnrighteous before, and now is made righteous: thē the blessed virgin is to be taken, not for iustified by Christ, but iust from her beginning by preseruation.

6 If a sauiour be taken for him, which saueth men fallen into perdition & condemnation, so is not Christ sauior of Mary, but is her saueour only in this respect, for susteining her from not falling into condemnation, &c.

7 Neither did the virgine Mary geue thankes to God, nor ought so to doe, for expiation of her sinnes, but for her conseruation from case of sinning.

MarginaliaGood stuffe8 Neither did she pray to God at any time for remission of her sinnes, but onely for remission of other mens sinnes she praied many times, and counted their sinnes for hers.

9 If the blessed virgine had deceassed before the Passion of her sonne, God would haue reposed her soule not in the place among the Patriarkes, or among the iust, but in the same most pleasaunt place of Paradise, where Adam and Eue was, before they transgressed.

These were the doting dreames and phantasies of theFranciscans & of other papists, commonly then holden in the schooles, wrytten in their bookes, preached in theyr sermons, taught in churches, * Marginalia* The gray friers had made a picture of Ioachim & Anna kissing by the which kisse Anna was conceiued with Mary. and set foorth in pictures. So that the people was taught nothing els almost in the pulpits all this while, but how the virgine Mary was cōceiued immaculate, and holy wythout Originall sinne, and how they ought to call to her for helpe, whome they wyth special termes do cal MarginaliaEx Rob. Lycio, Minorita.the way of mercy: the mother of grace: the louer of pietie: the comforter of mankind: the continuall intercessour for the saluation of the faithfull: and an aduocate to the king her sonne, which neuer ceasseth. &c 

Commentary  *  Close

Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritate conceptionis beatae virginis (Paris, 1513), fo. 23v.

. MarginaliaIdolatry to the blessed virgin. Verba Papæ Sixti in Decret. And althoughe the greatest number of the scholedoctours were of the contrary faction, as Peter Lombardus, Thom. Aquine, Bernandus, Bonauentura, and other: yet these new papists shifted of their obiections with friuolous distinctiōs and blinde euasions, as thus: Petrus Lombardus, they sayd, is not receiued nor holdē in the schooles, as touching thys article, but is reiected: 
Commentary  *  Close

Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritate conceptionis beatae virginis (Paris, 1513), fo. 51r.

Clitoueus lib. 2. cap. 15.

[Back to Top]

Bernardus 

Commentary  *  Close

Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritate conceptionis beatae virginis (Paris, 1513), fos. 47v-49v.

in Epist. ad Lugdunens. although hee seemeth to deny the conception of the blessed virgin to be voyd of Originall sinne, saying that she could not be holy when shee was not, and liued not: MarginaliaObiections popishly soluted.to this they answere, that all be it she was yet in essence, not yet shee was holy in her conception, and before her conception in the diuine presence of God, which had chosen & preelected her before the worlds, to be the mother of the Lord.

[Back to Top]

Againe where Bernard doeth argue, that she was not without original sinne conceiued, because she was not cōceiued by the holy Ghost, to this they aunswere: That the holy Ghost may worke two wayes in conception: eyther without company of man, and so was Christ only conceiued: or els with company and help of man, and thus was the blessed virgin conceiued. Clit. lib. 2. cap. 14.

[Back to Top]

Bonauentura (say they) was an holy father, but hee spake then after the custome and maner of his time, when as the solemnitie and puritie of this conception was not yet decreed nor receiued by the publique cōsent and authority of the church, 

Commentary  *  Close

Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritate conceptionis beatae virginis (Paris, 1513), fos. 49v-50r.

now seing the authority of the church of Rome hath established the same, it oughte not to be contraried, nor can, wythout daungerous disobedience. In all mens actions, diligent respect of time must be had. MarginaliaPopish beliefe and doctrine goeth by time. That whych bindeth not at one time, afterward the same by law being ratified, may binde at an other. Ibid.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaVerity cōsisteth not in number of voyces, Nor victory in multitude of soldiers.Finally for the numer and multitude on the contrary side, thus they answer for themselues, as we nowe in these our daies likewise in defence of the truth may wel answere against the Pope and all his popish Friers, turning their owne weapons against them selues: Multitude, say they, ought not to mooue vs. Victorie consisteth not in number and heapes, but in fortitude and hearts of souldiours: yea rather fortitude and stomacke commeth from heauen, aud not of man. Iudas Machabeus wyth a little handfull, ouerthrewe the great armye of Antiochus. Strong Sampson wyth a poore Asses bone slew a thousand Philistines. Dauid had no more but a seely sling, & a few stones, and with these stroke downe terrible Goliath the Gyaunt. &c. 

Commentary  *  Close

Jodocus Clichtoveus, De puritate conceptionis beatae virginis (Paris, 1513), fos. 45v-46r.

Lib. eod. cap. 13.

[Back to Top]

With these and such other like reasons, the gray Franciscans voided their aduersaries, defending the cōception of the virgine Mary to be vnblemished, and pure from all contagion of Originall sinne. Contrariwyse the Blacke gard of the Dominike friers, for theyr partes were not all mute, but laide lustily from them agayne, hauyng greate authorities, and also the Scripture on theyr side. MarginaliaThe Popes side stronger thē the scripture.But yet the other hauing the sea Apostolicall wt them, had the better hande, and in fine gate the victorye triumphantly ouer the other, to the high exaltation of theyr order. For Pope Sixtus (as I sayd) by the authoritie Apostolicall, after hee had decreed the cōception day of the virgin perpetually to be sanctified, and also with his terrible Bull had condēned for heretiques al them which withstoode the same: the Dominicke Friers wyth authoritie oppressed, were dryuen to two incōueniences, the one was, to kepe silence, the other was, to geue place to their aduersaries the Franciscanes. All be it where the mouthe durste not speake, yet the heart would worke: and though the tongue were tied, yet theyr good will was ready by all meanes possible to maintaine their quarel, and their estimation.

[Back to Top]

MarginaliaAnno. 1509.Whereupon it happened the same yeare of our Lorde 1509. after this dissention betwene the Dominike Friers, & the Franciscanes, MarginaliaEx Casparo Peucero Chron. lib. 5. Ex Sebast. Munster. Cosmog. Lib. 3.that certaine of the Dominickes thinking by subtile sleight to worke in the peoples heades, that which they durst not atchieue with opē preaching, deuised a certaine Image of the Virgine, so artificially wroughte, that the Friers by priuie gins made it to stirre, & to make gestures, to lament, to complaine, to weepe, to grone, & to geue answers to them that asked: in somuch that the peo-

[Back to Top]
ple
AAa.iii.
Go To Modern Page No:  
Click on this link to switch between the Modern pagination for this edition and Foxe's original pagination when searching for a page number. Note that the pagination displayed in the transcription is the modern pagination with Foxe's original pagination in square brackets.
Find:
Type a keyword and then restrict it to a particular edition using the dropdown menu. You can search for single words or phrases. When searching for single words, the search engine automatically imposes a wildcard at the end of the keyword in order to retrieve both whole and part words. For example, a search for "queen" will retrieve "queen", "queene" and "queenes" etc.
in:  
Humanities Research Institute  *  HRI Online  *  Feedback
Version 2.0 © 2011 The University of Sheffield